233. - Chris & Jason

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Buongiorno! Jason tapping in from the beautiful Amalfi Coast. What are you sipping on there, King? Well, we're doing a doubleheader podcast, if you didn't already know. I'll be traveling the next time we're doing that. So we're just going to record one beefy full-throttle episode to satiate you throughout the week. So in order to do that, I have two cups of espresso poured and a bottle of champagne. Wow, wow, wow, wow. You know, the interesting part about Italy is the coffee is terrible. I don't know if you've noticed that. Well, they don't have coffee here. They only have espresso. I mean, I don't know. To me, I'm not a big espresso fan, so it all kind of just tastes the same to me, honestly. It's not any better or any worse than what I'm used to. And honestly, pound for pound, the Nespresso delivers a pretty damn good product. I hate to say it. I'm shocked at your simpness when it comes to the beautiful espresso pull and art form that they... I mean, I appreciate that espresso is available readily. Like, it's like you can get one at the fucking 7-Eleven and it's better than Starbucks. I think that is cool. Yeah. But... You know, it's just not – it doesn't have – I like my espresso a little bit fruity, if I'm being honest, much like my people, much like my male friends. Tutto gay. Exactly. It's a little burned to me usually, but I'm glad that you're – Wow. So you're just – are you drinking regular coffee every day or are you having the Italian espresso? They don't have regular coffee. I'm just – I've been drinking espressos, Americanos, you know. Le Longue, which is just the –

the espresso that they let water go through for longer. I'm learning more about coffee from you than I realized I was going to. It's no problem for me. Well, it's because we're not complicating the conversation with... With oat milk and foam. We're talking about strict hard bean. The Nespresso creates a natural foam. I don't know if you knew that. Other than that, no. I'm drinking it just hard raw. I don't drink coffee like I live in a hotel. So no, I don't use a Nespresso. More importantly, let's cut to the chase. Have you weighed yourself yet or not? There's no scales in Italy. Everyone here is skinny or fat. There's nothing in the middle. If you come back 10 pounds heavier and you're wearing knee length. jean shorts i'm gonna be a little i'm gonna be a little concerned but i'm preparing for the worst of course i'm concerned yeah the problem is in amalfi the hotel has free breakfast so that's not doing anyone any favors luckily it's it's pretty disgusting so i'm i'm pretty much just using it for the orange juice and the coffee why i told you what it would be i told you it was just a room full of Room full of different stale-ish pastries. Was I wrong? There's more to that. In addition to a bunch of stale-ish pastries that are uneatable, you could say inedible. I could probably find one. I can order eggs however I like them here. And then there's also the option of the English breakfast where I can get beans, wieners, and badly cooked tomato. and some bread that was made in Uzbekistan in 2017. Nothing gets my gullet greased more than a couple of charred tomatoes at 8 a.m. The English breakfast, although part of their culture, is something that I have a tough time understanding. The bean before noon part particularly baffles me. I've tried to like the English breakfast so many times, and I just don't understand it.

so puzzling why you would want to eat all of that all of that i wonder what the history i've never looked into the history i'm sure there's like a reason behind all it's like some coal miners you know you have to eat for your sustenance or all that shit who knows well as a as a blue collar worker i feel like you would understand kind of i mean i'm hoofing it you know 10 miles a day i don't know what that is in kilometers but i'm i'm earning it and i'm trying to skip meals but I don't know. It's tough. I mean, the main problem is when you're in Italy, every restaurant serves the same food everywhere you go. Yes. And if you want to get something different than Italian food, it's going to be, like, beyond bad. I'll be wishing I was eating airport food compared to what the options are. No, it's basically four pasta courses or McDonald's, and there's no in-between. Yeah, that's it. And every restaurant, every pasta restaurant, Has the same pasta. And it's just like, this one's really good. This one's kind of good. This one's good. This one's kind of good. This one's really good. And that's it. And it's all the same. It's all the same everything. And I don't know how people just eat cacio e pepe for lunch and for dinner every day forever. It's called... culture jason and it's they have a jolly be there i mean i know i know that you eat a hot dog every day for for lunch and dinner which is the american version of cachoe pepe so i don't really understand what you're so up in arms about it seems like something you should at least understand on a on a cultural level yeah i mean i guess i don't know like when you go to mexico like you can you can get tacos and you can eat tacos every day but like There's so many different kinds of tacos. Every day is an adventure whenever you're in Mexico and eating tacos. Because you're saying the fillings are different. Yeah, the fillings are different, and every restaurant, the way they do it is all different. You want a fish taco, chicken taco, beef taco, tongue taco, goat taco. There's hundreds of different tacos, but in Rome, it's like pasta with guanciale and tomato, pasta with guanciale and cheese, pasta with cheese.

Or pasta with egg and guanciale and cheese. Yeah. And that's it. That's it. And then we have some bread with nothing else. There's no salad. And then you eat some tomatoes and mozzarella. No, the salad is the worst. I'm going through it. My body is... Even Iron Tummy TJ is unfortunately rejecting this much. pasta this much carbohydrate i'm able to handle it i'm able to handle it on a physical guttural level but i i'm a man who eats for variety and that's what's hurting me the most like the way i plan my meals every day it's like all right what did i eat yesterday what did i have the day before sure i'm always rotating it so every time i eat something it's new and fresh and like all right i had indian yesterday so i'm not i'm gonna eat This today. We had sushi last night, so I'm going to have this. You know, it's like I had a bunch of salads all week, so now we're going to get a steak. I ate a bunch of steak this week, so I'm going to eat a salad. You know, I'm always reacting to what I've always had, and I can't do that here. My hands are tied. My hands are tied with grapevines. It's tough. Like, yes, last night we had our special, like, cleansing meal, so we didn't have to do the same thing over and over again. Like, all right, we're going to, like... Just have, like, a lighter, like, regular meal. And it was French fries and a steak. Was this at the hotel or was this... No, no, no. We went to a lit restaurant here in Sorrento. Yeah, what were they doing? Were they playing fucking Dua Lipa? Like, what do you mean by popping spot? No, no, no. There was no music playing. That was a fucking bummer. There was no music and very bright fluorescent lights because they want to... They want to turn them and burn them. Yeah, it's like when the bathroom at a bar has bright lights to keep the junkies from nodding out. Exactly. They're trying to get you out of there after you eat 32 ounces of T-Bone. Well, it's because they're like the busiest restaurant in the city, so you show up an hour before they open and you write your name on a list, and then there's just jugs of wine. By the time you leave, there's, I don't know, like 50 people standing outside.

You write your name down, and the guy gives you wine and cheese on a toothpick, and everyone just kind of hangs out, so they're just trying to get you in and out the whole time. Is it actually good? It was okay. It was fine. We sat next to some people who were from Glendale, though. They're Armenians, so we got to build. Hey, you got a smoke I can bum? But no, it was like a guy who was on vacation with his chick and his chick's family, his chick's parents. yeah and you could you could clearly tell that he was like like 11 days into hanging out with his girl his like wife's parents one of them is like they're like it's like euro trash from spain or euro trash from italy and he was just like bro like Can we talk about anything? He's like, when can I get back to my fucking S550 AMG and my PS5? Because this is not cutting it for me. I'm not into the old world. He was trying to sell us on this boat. He was like, yeah, this company, it's like a boat, and you go to Capri. Did you go to Capri? It's torched. Not yet. We're going in a couple days. I mean, it's torched in the sense of it's basically like a day party. You know what I mean? But that appeals to you. So we're going to take a boat and just cruise all over the place and go into a lagoon and take selfies or whatever you do on the open boat. You're sounding really excited about this, so continue. And then, I know, you stop into Capri to, I don't know, do some shopping at Armani Exchange. Yeah, you can hop out. You can get a new fit at Dolce & Gabbana, your favorite designers. And then you get right back on the boat. I don't care how troublesome or problematic they are. They're killing it. Their new season is fucking bomb. And I was sad that they got hailed on. I was, too. I didn't see the humor in that. I watched that Diet Prada video, and I felt nothing but, you know. I was unable to find the humor in that. And I find the humor in a lot of things, but the downfall of Dolce & Gabbana is not making me chuckle. Let me tell you that. So you're going to go to Capri. You're going to pay 35 euros for an Aperol Spritz at a beach club that's got rocks on the ground instead of sand.

And they're going to be mean to you. You could maybe have a light piece of fish in that setting. We did all of this yesterday. By far, I had the best day. All this stuff you're describing. In a negative tone was by far the best day of my entire trip. Okay, so let's walk out. You went to Chez Black, my club that I have over there. We walked past Shea Black, which had not one customer in it, even though we're between shifts. It was early. I'm getting the P&L reports, and we're doing pretty well this season. So my hospitality business is booming. I'm not going to let you tell me any different. I'm not here to knock you. I'm not here to knock you, Shea Black. And I got a great photo for you. You can put it on your stories if you want. Wow, thanks. Ristorante D'Adolfo. Yes. It's an Emil-approved spot. Yeah, it's a famous stop on the Italian jaunt. For people who are in the food space, everyone is just like, yeah, that's the only place I could actually recommend. to go to you know because like the only place is not like a tourist trap kind of bullshit spot we paid like 30 bucks a person and we got like nice chairs oh that's good you got nice chairs that's good well i mean you you're paying that money to be able to like you get a free boat ride from the city then you go into yeah yeah you know this little cove that fits you know 50 people or something like that and you it's just you in this cove and nothing else and you're just like so like for 30 bucks i think it's kind of worth it like that's how much it costs to park how many other how many other garbage americans are there it's only rich americans i was the most garbage american there really yeah it was just like shitty rich people from new york who are like There's this, there's a hot girl that you would have liked who was reading Cobble Hill. You know, her boyfriend was probably wearing, I think he was wearing some like swim trunks that had like a picture of like a car on them. Don't tell me about her boyfriend wearing Paul Smith swim trunks in fucking 2021. It wasn't, it was not, not Paul Smith trunkies. Um, he was, he was like four steps below the.

The Libra... The Libraquin? I just forget how to... Yeah, we're only... The most Eurotrash thing about me is my dedication to the Libraquin bathing suits. I like it too. Well, they come with a nice carrying bag. So when you take your suit off and it's wet, it comes with a nice bag. It never seeps into your other luggage. If you go straight from the beach club to the airport, you know how it is. Maybe that's why you're so loyal to the Bose headphones. Exactly. Because they're smart carrying... I do love the way they fold up. It's cool as hell. You want to talk about genius design? You're at the beach club with this hot literary chick in her Arez bathing suit and her corny boyfriend. Yes. Did you make small talk with them or anything, or is this just a viewing? Not with them, not with them. They were kind of duds, so I didn't make small talk with them. Unfortunately, there was a couple next to us where it was like a very, very hot young guy. Tell me more. And then an older woman, like an older American woman. You know, like, giant Versace glasses on. You know, she could probably lose 60. And I went to go get some, like, refills or drinks or something like that. And the guy was chatting up bae. And then the woman that he was with was staring at me the whole time, like. like looking at me like a piece of meat oh i thought she was gonna be like yo you better like what's going on here should should we smash because my man's gonna hit yours i thought that was the there was a little bit of that going on but then what that was that's what happened at first but then once um once he was talking to my chick for too long and not giving old old bird enough attention then she was like we gotta go and then like She called some guy and then like a different boat came and picked them up like very quickly, like within minutes. And so basically he was like a he was like a gigolo. Yeah. He was a pay. He was paid for. And I'm sure I'm sure. I mean, do you think KK made a donation or do you think it was just OK? No, no, no. But she was looking at me like maybe she was looking at my chick like, you know.

game respect game you also dabble in the dark arts and then she was looking at me like what what the price she said she said i'm this short king is hot but i'm ready to climb a tree on the yacht and i've got a thousand euros to prove it they don't they don't make them this tall they don't round round here in sorrento the problem would be jason in this situation she might want the boyfriend experience well luckily for her that's all i have to offer i thought she i would prefer in a gigolo sense a smash and grab but it's sounds like you'd have had to maybe cook a shrimp scampi on the boat you know no no no i'm i i do the boyfriend part of the boyfriend experience if i were to jig that would if i were to gigolo but if i were to trick off in a mall you would be on the yacht with her but you would be scrubbing the the the wood like like a working class vibe but then no no no no i mean it's not blue collar it's more it's more i think more jewish it's more analyst it's i'm gonna tell I'm going to tell her things about her life that she really needs to hear that nobody else in her life... Oh, it's emotional work that you're doing. Yes, yes, yes. All the people that are dependent on her financially, they're not going to be the one to tell her the cold, hard information that she needs to hear. Like, hey, baby, you need to lose 60. You're going to have to pay me for this dick is what you're saying. Well, weight loss is not the only... part of it but it is a little bit of it yeah i'd say it's 20 but it's more of like she so so they and they just so basically this this gigolo talked to kk for too long and then they just had to leave yeah she was like all right i need to go to like a different island that has nobody on it so so this guy can start licking my left tit or something let's wrap this up and she basically just did like the whistle and then some boat showed up in dead ass like 20 like less than less than a minute I would say like, I don't know, 45 seconds, a boat that was just like waiting in the harbor. Yeah, it's like when I have my driver park around the corner. I'm running into Kith. Exactly. I'm running into Kith. I got to get this new Wilson collab for the U.S. Open. I'll be out in 20. You know, check your phone because I can't have anybody see me coming out of here. Precisely. And speaking of fashion and Kith, while I've been in Sorrento. No problem. By far the hottest chick that I have seen.

on this trip was a girl riding a scooter wearing a kith t-shirt most stylish chic and beautiful woman that i've seen in the last few days in sorrento was was kith kith gang that hurts that's how rough the fashion world is here yeah well that's why i was worried that's why i was worried about you because the number one thing that i've seen from our italian friends and they've given us so much uh but the the long short on the man You can pick this out from a mile away. The denim short that grazes the knee, it could be khaki as well. But you see it, that is their signature. That's their signature. It goes right above the knee, and then there's a little bit of a cuff in the fabric. So the product is cuffed right there, and it's kind of skin tight. It's not so baggy. No, I would say it's tight. I would say too tight. No, it's too tight. It's too tight. And then... you know a nice pair of pumas on there with some ankle socks and then a t-shirt if you're if you're the coolest guy you know it's a t-shirt with the levi's logo the levi the levi's logo t-shirt is truly a phenomenon among tourists in new york as well like like i think it's just a lot of those in new york is it a thing that's happening right now or years no for years bro i think it's i think it's just like It's an iconic American brand, and that T-shirt's probably $20, you know? And it's like, you're not going to wear a Coca-Cola logo. I've never seen anyone wear it. I've never seen this shirt outside of this trip. And I was walking around. I mean, I've seen it a lot more in Rome than Sorrento. Rome's a little bit more of a fashion hub. Of course. You will see a guy with some, like, Puma shoes. Some Puma ankle socks. Well, at least the socks match the footwear. You know, at least he's not. There's a lot of clashing sock and shoe brands as well, though. I know you like to mix the Under Armour with the Adidas, but not everybody likes that. See, that's a passable look. You can get an eight and a half if you have the Under Armour mixed with the Adidas. Fuck that, bro. Fuck that. So there's some pros to it, but you'll see an awful Puma sock, Puma shoe combo.

All ankle. And then you will see the Levi's t-shirt with just like the regular Levi's logo. And he will be on the arm of a woman that is as hot as Emily Ratajkowski. Every single block you turn down. Every street. What kind of haircut? Because you'll catch a faux hawk over there. It ain't nothing to catch a faux hawk. TJ has engaged Caesar mode while I'm out here. I'm combing forward. Not Caesar mode. Caesar is the hottest haircut you can have in Italy. It lets people know that you have a little bit of a gangster edge to yourself. That is not true. Yeah, it is. All the baddest boys have Caesars here. Your hair is too long to do a Caesar. You've got to get a weekly lineup to keep a Caesar like me. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's okay. It's okay. I mean, I make it work. I make it work. Yeah, no wonder I haven't seen many photos of you. Thank God. You're clearly not making it work, and everybody knows it. Like, the coolest kids that I've seen so far, like, the ones who are getting, like, the hottest chicks in Italy will be wearing Michael Jordan brand clothes. Like, Jordan long, like, long three-quarter length basketball Jordan shorts. Classic. Jordan shirt. And then, you know, a lot of Air Force Ones. are going on. Did your A1s fit in the Toomey or no? Fuck no. You just brought your espadrilles and your Javianas? I don't know what TJ wears to the beach. Just Berks? Yeah, I've mostly just been wearing Berks. It's pretty much just Berks. I've got some off-white, like a cream-colored pair of Crocs if I'm going to be doing... you know like a water situation like if i'm going on the boat or whatever then i'll do that but otherwise yeah just birkenstocks i know you don't like to hear that no no no i i wear i wear stocks to the beach as well but i i will embrace the classic blue or black javianas i think being anti-flip-flop is archaic personally no i'm with you i'm with you it just has to be in the right setting

Not waiting on the F train. Nah, yeah, nah. When you're on the boat, though, Jason, I do think you need something. You have to have a non-marking sole, much like a tennis court. That's true. Thank you for that info. You need to be careful, is all I'm saying. Because you don't want to slip, but you also want to look chic. So I don't know if a backless shoe is really the solution. I've got my work cut out for me on this trip. Thank you for this info. No problem. been learning is that you know rome amalfi sorrento ravello all these places you know they're they're just these beautiful magical zones that are just the most picturesque views you've ever seen you know just like fig trees growing at the side of the road and you know perfect lemons that are sweet and you know the nicest little people everywhere and blah blah blah but it's been it's been fucked out by tourism so badly over the over the years that oh yeah it is like a shit hole environment unless you are ultra wealthy like you have to spend a lot of money To have a truly, like, good time. Yeah. Which is kind of like every vacation nowadays. Like, that's the same for Las Vegas and stuff. But, like. That's beautiful. It's a different level here. Yeah, that's how it should be. It's beautiful, isn't it? No, no. I mean. I know. I mean, I think most places that are truly paradise are fucked. And, like, it's just. I mean, yeah. Also, like, it's very difficult. You have to spend a lot of money to, like, avoid tourists that ruin everything. Like, visibly and audibly. Like, I don't want to look at people like that. It ruins my trip. Honestly, it's – I mean, obviously, it's amazing. It's great. But, like, because of the location, how crazy it is, the views and the water and the whole thing, like, it's all coming at a premium, of course, and the service is great and all this shit is wonderful. But, like, I don't know. When I was in Rome, you know, we were staying at a – the hotel is, like, you know, $150 a night or something like that. It's, like, some Ace Hotel prices. And it was all new and nice and, like, the body wash smells.

good and you know blah blah blah but it just ain't the same But this spot, it's kind of like it's a little bit older. It could use an upkeep or makeover. It's not old in a way that you like. It's not a Chateau Marmont old. It's old. It's like a 1989 to 1994 type situation. Did they talk to you funny there because you're tall? Did the bellhop like to make conversation? No. That's good. It's mostly the teen. Like every other place in the world, it's mostly the teenagers. And they try to fuck with you a little bit. They don't like you. I couldn't tell. I was trying to talk because we were there, and Bay has a friend in from out of town who's from Italy. She's from Milano, and she came and hung out with us in Rome for a day. And we were asking her all these questions, and I was like, I have so many questions about the culture and blah, blah, blah. Because we would walk by, and there would be groups of teens, and they'll be looking at me. and i'll just be walking around and whatever they'll look at me and they'll like whisper to their friend to like tell their mom like oh like how tall i am but they'll do it like very quietly and respectively and then like those are just days where i'm just like walking around with like a white t-shirt and some shorts on or whatever but then if we're going out to like a nice meal and have like a collared shirt on and i'm looking a little bit better they'll yell stuff at me they'll yell like okay and then and i'm and uh and i'll be like clearly this is like some sarcasm shit like they're like fucking with me so i was asking her friend like you know are they being sarcastic and she's like italian people don't like she's like i don't think so i think they're like genuinely like telling you like you look good what i didn't really i know i was shocked as well but she's like i don't think they would say that i think they're like being being Ernesto with you. I don't think KK's friend really understands how teenagers work. I know, I know. I don't think this has anything to do with cultural stuff. I think it has to do with teenagers. Teenagers are shitty.

They're awful. I could have just been looking good that day. Who knows? No, that's very possible. I mean, with this Caesar, I don't see how that could be. The Caesar was not happening. Caesar mode was engaged when I got to Amalfi. I spend most of my time in the water out here, so it's hard to maintain. Were you able to put the Supreme Jet Ski you bought on a boat, or did that have to stay here? We're having issues with customs at the moment. God damn it, bro. I told you to do this earlier. I knew this was going to ruin the trip. There's always one thing that falls through the cracks, and this one was it. I mean, you can't win them all. It's a shame that it had to be the Supreme. It's okay. We're going to ride tandem in the Hudson when you get back. It's Nathan for me. Speaking of Supremacy, we've talked a lot about Black Air Force One discourse and things like that. There's the common conversation of the Black Air Force One. you wear when you're about to stab someone or commit a cool crime or something like that. Of course. And the same kind of energy applies here in Italy, but it's a little bit different. The only people that wear black Air Force Ones here are girls. And there's a stark difference between girls that wear white Air Force Ones and girls that wear black Air Force Ones. And it's literally good versus evil going on. You'll see a girl wearing a baby blue kind of summer dress. It's hot as hell. It's like 95 degrees here and superb. super humid and all that shit. So, like, you know, a nice, beautiful summer dress with some white Air Force Ones and it kind of has, like, this more angelic energy. And then you'll have, like, the 13-year-old girl wearing the black Air Force Ones and she's, you know, she looks like she's been smoking cigarettes for three days straight and, like, she does some petty crimes. Oh, I like that. She'll steal your wallet. She's had a couple kids. Like, it's very clear. In L.A. or New York, there's a little bit of mystery. You'll see a normal-looking person wearing black Air Force 1s, and it's kind of working. Only the bad girls wear black ones here. I like how simple it is to understand. I appreciate that your takeaway from a week in Italy and the Italian culture is that good girls wear white Air Force 1s and bad girls wear black Air Force 1s. Thank you for that astute commentary. That's just one chunk.

Of course, one small, I know one small. But I mean, so let's get down to brass tacks. One small piece of a bigger puzzle. TJ, because when friend of the show Dasha was talking about how pasta in Italy, food in Italy was whatever, I predicted that you would feel the same way. And I find that to be really funny. So go ahead and tell us how mid everything is. Talk my little talk. Talk your little talk, TJ. I'm giving you, I'm giving you, we got Donda, we got CLB, now we got TJ on Italy. Yeah, I mean, I kind of talked about it a little bit at the beginning of how, like, every restaurant, I mean, when you're in Rome, obviously, it's good. Like, we, I was lucky enough to get a little bit of a food tour situation with a friend of the show, Cati Parla, who, you know, she's taking a bunch of people out on tour. She was on the CNN. show with what's his name with stanley tucci and you know she's been on a bunch of stuff and she you know she's friends with warham and everything so she took us to some like legit places in rome that were really really good like some good pizza spots and gelato spots and all this stuff so like that part was good And I enjoyed that. And she kind of knew as, like, an American helping an American, like, you know, here's a variety of things that you will like that's, like, will please your palate, but it's still, like, totally authentic. But outside of that, you know, it really is just, like, every restaurant is kind of the same thing. It's, like, the Osteria. Yeah. And it's, like, we got four pastas. We got zucchini blossoms that have been stuffed with cheese, and we fry them. And we got a caprese salad. And that's it. I don't know. I just can't do it. It was good. I went to one place, Osteria Z Umberto in Rome. Okay. And that was like, okay, this is real shit. This is really good. And the problem is when the menu is the same at every single restaurant, you need more things going on to kind of help bring the flavors out. So that restaurant had this guy who was working there who...

Who was like really hot and he had a giant black eye. I'm eating his zucchini blossoms with a smile. But it's also like, you know, 95 degrees. The sun is beating down on you. You're hungover from the night before. You've got no sleep. You're jet lagged. Last night you ate pasta for dinner and some tiramisu for dessert. You went to bed at 3 in the morning. You know, your digestion and sleep is fucked up. You wake up. I'm worried. We're going to get to this, but I'm worried about your hydration. That's what I'm actually worried about, but go ahead. I've been drinking a lot of water. It's still never enough, but it's just fucked to have that, and you're like, well, and you sleep in because the timing is fucked up with the jet lag, so it's like we're waking up at 10 a.m., and by the time we're getting ready, then we've got to walk. Four and a half miles down a cobblestone road in 90 degree heat. Jason, you don't have to convince me that vacation is trash. I've been yelling that from the mountaintops for years and people act like I'm a fucking monster. I'm just painting the picture. I'm just painting the picture. You're making the case for me without making the case for me and I think it's beautiful. But then you finally arrive at the restaurant, the Osteria, and then you're there and you have to wait. You have to get... You know, they're at 11 a.m. because the line will be three hours long if you go there for regular lunch. And then you eat, you know, like a bowl of cacio e pepe or something, you know, some hot cheesy pasta in 93 degree heat with the sun beating down on you. You're hungover and you're. sweating like a motherfucker this is gross bro this is gross and then you're drinking you're drinking wine like i was just drinking just to get through you know just to take some of the pain away yeah tj tj been twisted i'm surprised you haven't gotten a urinating in public ticket yet over there then we went to the so that happened you know like five times because you do that like three times a day but then we went to this place zoo umberto and like It's in a nice little piazza, little kind of thing. Oh, a piazza. It's shaded, and it's truly locals only. There's only one tourist table, and they were not American. They're maybe German or something like that, and they left. And then once basically all the tourists leave,

and it's only italians then the place kind of comes alive oh they hate us you know you understand what i'm saying yeah i get it now so you have to kind of let them know that you're like hey like hey we're american obviously like you know look at my dumb ass and then i have like an asian girl with me so it's like okay these people are not italian but then i was kk could pass kk could pass for italian what do you mean But I had the smarts to offer him an American spirit. He's smoking these little ratty roll-your-own cigs in between shifts, and he's taking his mask off, taking a puff, putting the mask back on. He's having a time where it's kind of like a little bit of a slag. So then after I do the peace offering of the American spirit, and then the table of Germans leave, and then it's just me, and then four other tables of... pure italian ass people like people who live in the neighborhood and then he turns the music up and it's like dua lipa like techno remixes like like mtv clubland style shit and of course the mask comes off like we don't need the mask anymore now i'm in and he starts flirting with my chicks and my chicks start flirting with him you know he's he's making fun of me in italian and then all this guy he's hot as hell And he's getting my fucking bitches drunk, and they start talking about how hot he is. He's got a gap in his teeth. He's got a black eye, and he's chiseled out of fucking marble. Damn, this guy fell off his triumph on the way to work, got a black eye, and still came in to serve pasta. God damn it. I mean, after that day, I was like, okay, I get it. And then when the food came out... It was like I had that come-to-Jesus moment with this bowl of cacio e pepe. It was that good. It was that good. It was that different than the others. It was. It was the same exact thing. It was just like cacio e pepe with the pasta, same plate, looks the same. There's some pepper around the rim of the plate. There's some Parmesan cheese. You're drinking some cheap table wine, and you've got some little bread that you can pour and dip into it.

But this one, for some reason, a player went cross-eyed. I don't know what it was. Damn. And then I was like, okay, I get it. And I've been chasing that dragon ever since. I don't know if I'm ever going to get it. And everyone has that moment at a different... You know, like everyone has their favorite pasta at their favorite place. Just, you know, your subjective taste. I would say at that point, then it's time to turn around and get on the plane because it's not going to get it's not going to get better than that. So what's the I mean, what difference does it make? You told me, brother, what can I do? I mean, look, man, I'm praying for you. But I mean, have you gotten some sun? Tons of sun. Great. In Sorrento. Yeah, that's great. I mean, like the hotel that we're at. It's got a pool. It's got a beach club. And then yesterday, I mean, I was just swimming in the ocean all day with all my... Isn't the salt water so restorative? I mean, not to, you know, not to, you know, I'm not a big outdoors guy, but the ocean, I truly adore. No, it's very restorative, even if it's just like a placebo effect. I don't know what it is, but... Also, the water is much – the salt here is different, and I think the saline level is higher. You're more buoyant in the ocean. It kind of makes up for the fact that there's no sand. It's just jagged rocks in the ocean instead of soft sand to play around with like you're in Cabo San Lucas. This is great, man. Yeah, it's great. I mean, I'm feeling that like my – Like my hair is getting lighter, like my beard hair and my head hair is turning a little blonde, like my leg hairs are turning blonde. I'm getting tan and crisped up. I don't get hungover anymore. Yeah, you look like a spit-roasted pig now instead of just a regular one. That's right. And the true Amalfi, like the kind of Poseidon-looking guys on the coast, where it's just like a 60-year-old guy who's... like so tan and you know he's not fat but he has a little bit of a belly and he you know he looks like marlon brando like he's just like the most handsome guy you've ever seen in your life and he you know just probably like sleeps on a cot something there's something special about it man i agree like they don't have because like the the equivalent of those guys in in where i'm from it's like guys who like work on the fishing boat in long beach like

You know, their name is Red Dog. They have a sleeve of, you know, like a Vulcan star and then like an octopus fighting a bow and, you know. Yeah, it's not quite the same. You know, they live at home with their stepmom. And this guy is just like, you know, he's fucking supermodels probably. Like he, I have photos of this guy. He looks like Charlton Heston in 1959. It's just like, and he's the guy who like drives the boat. To the restaurant. These Italians, you know, they prioritize the good life over anything else. And, you know, I find that disgusting. Talking about La Dolce Vita? Yeah, exactly. I find that disgusting and boring, but other people seem to love it. And, you know, from what I can tell on my Instagram page, everyone, you know, I know is in Italy or Mallorca. And, you know, Godspeed, losers. I'll be here counting my bread. while you guys are drinking and swimming, which is fun for about 24 hours. Spending a lot of bread out here, Chris, I've got to say. Well, you've got to eat a lot of bread, spend a lot of bread. I mean, it's a lose-lose for you every way I look at it. And we're podcasting at off times. It's really been tough for me, too. I'm sorry, Chris. In terms of tourist trap kind of situations, going to the Vatican really changed my life. That was my Donda moment. So you're saying Playboy Cardi was at the Vatican? In so many ways, yes. Interesting. The Vatican was one of the most mind-blowing architectural things I've ever done in my entire life. And I follow Tick Sunset on Instagram. Okay, so you're saying you were impressed by this space that was built a long time ago. If you want to distill it down to such simple words. I love distillation. Yeah, I love that. If you want to do that in a way that's not demeaning or belittling, sure. Of course, of course. And I'm not a religious man, but.

I think I get it now. And unfortunately, the one thing I do get is that religion does only care about money at the end of the day, like so many things. Of course. Over here, they have this thing called the Green Pass, which is kind of like the European equivalent of the COVID QR code scan, like the COVID vaccination card. Yeah. And we went to some restaurants where they literally turned us away, like, I'm sorry, you can't eat. in this restaurant because we scanned your little American shit and it didn't work. And, like, we were, like, refused service at, like, a little restaurant because we didn't have it. And then we're at the Vatican in the gift shop. Damn, what did you cop for me, bro? Did you give me the Vatican basketball shorts to ask for? You can pay five euro to go into, like, the museum, the Vatican museum, so you can see all the crazy shit, like the gold. chalices from the 7th century. You can pay 5 euros to see more boring old stuff. This is the stuff that's priceless. You get to walk into the actual Vatican for free and you can see the whole structure. It's like the size of fucking Barclays and it's made out of gold and marble and it's just like these ornate... sculptures and designs and you know it was truly breathtaking i've been i've been and i was i was zooted on oxys and i still wasn't that impressed if i'm being honest with you i gotta be totally honest with you these old buildings don't do much for me you know so i maybe it's just me but you know no i'm the same way like when you're in italy and every every cool sick building is just a church that was built you know the year 10 when you first show be like fuck look at this like Some guy just sculpted this god out of stone 2,000 years ago, and it's better than any art that is created now. They don't teach you this at Orange County Community College. This is stuff you've got to see in real life. That's true. OCC, I didn't even get my Adobe Creative Suite hooked up, and these guys are just building.

You know, there's no technology. There's no measuring devices. It's all just, you know, using a sundial. So you're telling me these guys didn't have a ruler app on their iPhone when they were doing this shit? They didn't have a ruler app. I got all that shit on my phone. So how do you level shit? You know what I mean? Do you just let God do it? This is the question I'm trying to ask because they got this shit real good. Because I went to the pyramids. I went to the pyramids, dog, and I was like, yeah, this is aight. I mean, you know, it's like. Oh. Oh, come on, bro. Pyramids are lit. I've never been there. Honestly, it's not that lit. It's like everything is just a tourist attraction scam. So it's like hard to – you know what I mean? If you're there alone and it's like sunset, I'm sure it's like pretty breathtaking. But when you're surrounded by a bunch of dorks and everybody's trying to sell you a camel ride, it's like I don't want to be – I don't want to even see this. I don't even care. You're taken out of the mood. I get that. I get that. And that goes back to our point. Bro, I can go on Google, dog. I got Google on my phone and my computer. I know. I do too. Um, for the time being, but I don't know something about something about, like I walked past, you know, 700 churches and you're like, fuck that's sick. And then by the time you've seen your hundredth one, you're like, ah, another church. That's cool. There's like a crazy building. It looks crazy. It's sick. But then when I was in the Vatican, it was like, yo chief, yo chief, yo chief. Did you cry at the Vatican? I didn't cry. I didn't cry. I had to pee really bad, but I sorted that out. I know you're a certified pussy, but you said... I'm not afraid to cry. Not afraid to cry either. Basically what I was saying, but when it came time to spend five euro to get into that, they were like, we need to see your green card pass. And we're like, oh, we don't have it. And then he was like, okay, five dollars. Every place care, they're like, sorry.

It's illegal. We'll get shut down. We can't risk it. If they get caught doing this, they'll fucking fuck us up. And then at the Vatican, they're like, yeah, it's all good. If you got five, it's all good. I mean, brother, it literally sounds like going to a restaurant in New York. Well, let me see your vaccine card. And it's like you could literally flash a piece of paper with handwriting on it. Like, all right, yeah, yeah, good. Table for four, please. Yes, I saw somebody tweet. They asked for the vaccination card, and they showed him. a boarding pass stub from three months ago, and he's like, all right, you good. That's exactly, yeah. That's exactly what it is. So the Vatican has been, besides talking to an older woman who thought she might want to hire you for sex, the Vatican is your second most, your biggest, biggest attraction from this trip. I mean, that and also the, I got to say, the Ristorante di Adolfo getting, Getting the little private island nook where you just drink a beer, you read a book, you take a nap for 20 minutes, and you get super hot. And then you go swim for 20 minutes. You take a little rinse off. Then you go back. You have a nice Aperol spritz. You chill for a little bit. You just keep going in and out of the water. How many cigs are we blasting a day? Because I'm feeling like we're getting close to a pack at this point. No, no, no. I've actually – I brought a pack and a half on this trip, and I just ran out yesterday. So that counts me being in New York and then coming here. You can buy American Spirits there, though, I think. Oh, don't tell me that. Are you sure? Yeah. For real? Yeah. I mean, you can buy – I mean, I've definitely bought – Americanos? I've bought American Spirits in, like, Milan. And three and Zay, so I'm sure you can. Fuck, you just changed my life. Bro, that's all I do. It's kind of weird. I don't know. The smoking thing, that was sort of one of the only things I was really looking forward to on this trip. But it's kind of tough when the people you're with. I don't know. It's weird. If I was with somebody who was smoking cigarettes the whole time, I would kind of be grossed out by it. But then now that I'm with somebody who doesn't really smoke cigarettes, she'll smoke one every once in a while if the mood hits.

She ain't really achieving Big Dog style like the way they are here. So it takes a little bit of the fun out of it. I kind of feel like a little bit of a nasty man, like a waste man, smoking cigs at every opportunity. Has anybody offered you drugs or anything cool? No. Luckily, before we left New York, Bay has a friend who has a bun in the oven, and she's like, I got no use for this right now, so you can take my Zans. Oh, she dropped off the footballs, and TJ said, I'm punting. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So, I mean, I didn't get the whole bottle, but, you know, we got enough to play around with. But that's the other thing. I've learned, again, for the 900th time, drugs can be addicting, Chris. Yeah, bro. Xanax. Bro, you do a week of Xanies. I mean, I get it, man. It's hard. I was being sarcastic, obviously, preaching to the choir. But no, life comes at you fast. I mean, I remember when I quit doing drugs, I had a full, like a giant-ass vitamin bottle full of fucking Percocets and Xannies. Just like a mix, like thousands of dollars worth of pills. And I'm not going to say who, but I just blessed. You're talking about the Frito Misto. Yeah, exactly. I handed it off. I said, all right. These are for you. And somebody was like, damn, okay. So was I out of town at the moment or what is it? It was in New York, friend. And I also, you know, I just don't trust you really. Probably smart. Yeah. But I've been like jet lagged. It's been hard to sleep. You know, I've just been. Everything's been all fucked up. Is it weird because you're up late talking about White Lotus with people next to you at the restaurant? No, it's weird because it's nine hours ahead of what I'm used to, so it's literally just like... Oh yeah, it's not six, it's nine. So it's the exact opposite. So when I'm waking up, I should be asleep. It's just like totally flip-flop.

When you got the Zans in the pocket, you're like, well, I can't sleep. I went to bed at 8 p.m., and I woke up at 2.30 a.m., and this isn't going to work. Yeah, let me snort a little of this pink, pink football. Let me snort a halfie, and then you're like, how'd you sleep last night, babe? And you're like, oh. I don't even know where I am, ho. All I had to do was this drug, and I was able to sleep fine. And then the problem is, if you don't take the drug to sleep, Then you won't sleep. I know how drugs work, bro. You know how drugs work. I can't just take Xanax every single night for this entire trip. Well, you know, I only did it for three years and it ended up being okay after I, you know, detoxed. Yeah. I mean, you know, I always think about the stories you hear of, you know, Guns N' Roses, bass player Duff McKagan or some other legendary. Xan users who are like, yeah, I mean, I couldn't get out of bed until I took 40 pills or like 40 Xanax or something like that. So, so sick. You build up the tolerance after a while and then at some point it's just like, you know, what is even happening inside of that body? Speaking of building up the tolerance, Jason, certified lover boy. The brand new release from Donda. And then also Drake. put out a record as well no we don't need to do we don't need to talk for an hour trust i think abba abba there is a there is a new abba music uh but no you fuck with abba chris you abba head i mean bro as a guy who like hits and clearly no one can make them abba's probably got a better shot i mean that's literally all they know how to do ask that's the homie sean glass he said i saw on instagram he said he's abba's coming through with the sleeper hit But we don't need to talk about ABBA right now. We don't need to appear older than we already are. First of all, has Italo TJ listened to Certified Loverboy? So I drove from Sorrento to Ravello today, which is a, I don't know, I think it's about 12 miles, and it took about three hours. Vacation sucks. Vacation sucks. Vacation sucks. You know what I did today, bro? I woke up.

I had a leisurely cold brew. They don't have that there. I played some tennis with my friend Callan at 8 a.m. I played pretty well. Walked back, hit juice press. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer. And quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot. because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture.

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I think I'm hitting St. Ambrose with Pia next week. It's about to be a movie. It's going to be 2012 in New York City. Yeah, she ain't bringing the baby either. You know what I'm saying? It's about to go down. It's going to be an IRA activation. Mama having wine. Yeah, Mama having wine. What do you got again? A Honda CR-V, an Infiniti Q. What is it? I have a brand new Audi Q5. That's right. I've said this to you. You've got 2,000 kilometers on it. You're a junior agent at CAA, and I'm really proud of you and where you've come. Well, I could have got the BMW wagon, which I really wanted, but having a long car, driving around in Rome and all that stuff, like parking ain't sweet. Not the movement. It's not the movement. Or I could have got like a luxury BMW coupe type of thing, like a $100,000 sports car type BMW. Ooh, top, down, chrome spinning. Okay. And while I'm driving around in Amalfi, that would have been fine. Anywhere else, though. When it's around other rich people. But I don't want to – it was the wrong car to be like a tourist in Rome driving around. It was a little too flashy. I feel you, dog. So I didn't do it. But it's crazy how cheap the fucking car rentals are here, man. That's because these luxury cars, they ain't imported, man. That's the local shit. That's the Toyota. That's a good point. That's a good point. I mean, it's like $100 a day for, like, nice-ass cars. That's why I hop in the taxi, and it's always a 550 with the mints in the back, with the Fiji on cold, on coldie. So, yeah, we're driving to Ravelo. We're down the coast. A lot of people were warning me that it was going to be these treacherous dirt roads and your car is going to fall off the side of a cliff and some hot locals are going to have to pull your car out with a rope out of the ocean. They trade sex for helping your car out of the sand? Look, I'll fuck your wife, but, you know. I pulled the Fiat from the bottom of the reef, but...

We have to tag team your wife for 10 minutes. You know this, yes? I'm going to need a little toppy, you know. She will have to run me some head. You are aware of this? You are aware of this? Oh, shit. She will have to run me some dumb. You know this, correct? I don't have to say this again. Don't make me repeat it myself. Oh, God, that's funny as fuck. So I guess the roads weren't that bad. You didn't have to suck any Italian dick. You made it. The roads were not bad at all. That's great. No, it was totally fine. I mean, obviously, you get stuck behind a fucking... rihanna's tour bus and it's going to be some like tricky corners on the cliff but like people were saying this is like it's like dirt rose and all this shit like it was fine it was fine and i loved you know having like a night like a brand new you know european nice car that's like all all hooked up, and the air, you know, it's all good. It makes everything better, baby. I'm hauling ass, I'm doing corners, and I prefer driving in Italy to America so much more. You're a great driver, though. I think I've said this on the record before, but you're a great driver. I trust you with my life. Grazie, grazie. I mean, I will take my own life, but never the life of a friend. I will never put the familia in danger. as it pertains to the road but the way the way that italians drive it's just like a a true expression of the way they live it's just like you know in america it's just like we gotta stop at this red light and watch out there's gonna be a cop here and we can't do this and you know you're gonna get a ticket for this thing in italy there's no cops anywhere except for like directing traffic like we're driving on the wrong side of the road i'm passing shit i'm cutting people off and if you do that they respect you and they let you rock and that's

And it's like driving in jail. You've got to earn your respect. There's no laws. It's hood laws. I get that. I get that. And I love it. I love it. You're thriving in that environment. I'm going through, you know, driving through rural villages, 70 kilometers over the speed limit in a foreign country, in a foreign car. Damn, everything's foreign. Cops are behind me, and they're just like, it's all good. I move out of the way. Everything's foreign. If there's a cop behind me and I'm going 70 over the speed limit, if I move over and let him pass me... No, they don't care. They don't give a shit. They don't care about anything. As long as you are a respectable person and you're driving with some responsibility, you can do whatever the fuck you want. And I'm hauling ass. I'm bending corners. It ain't nothing for TJ. Yeah, yeah. That little Tesla's not hitting the same. They ain't got those over there, do they? I saw three Teslas. It made me want to hit the test, like I said. But I had the diesel. The diesel has a little more vroom vroom, you know? Of course. No, I'm familiar. I'm just glad you're not on a fucking scooter. You know, the God, God, God bless, because that would be a scary sight. I only saw one scooter accident. I would definitely crash and fuck myself up on a scooter. So, yeah, we're going. I was like, okay, we'll go to Ravelo. But, unfortunately, I have to listen to a certified lover boy on the way. as my as the homework and she was like you know fair deal gladly i will listen to it look babe it's either clb or rogan your fucking funeral now that i'm wondering i mean she would have rather listened to rogan unfortunately but we we listened to clb on the way there and we listened to Donda on the way home. Damn, bro. We have the A-B comparison. I'm sorry. I don't like to compare them because it seems like a war started by the media. You know what I mean? This continues to be the versus-ification of music, and I just want to say that both are bad, and that's all that matters. Yeah, I think everyone can agree that both are bad.

It's hard not to compare them and be like, I like one more than the other because they both came out within days of each other. Yeah, of course. That was their plan. I mean, there's two Drake songs that are good. 7am, Bridal Path, and The Knife. No, no, no. It's No Friends in the Industry. Which is how we feel about... Yeah, that's pretty good. That's our theme song for podcasting. We don't talk to none of you motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? Me and Jason's my day one. I don't hang out with any other podcasters. By the time this podcast comes out, check out Chris Black on Throwing Fits. No Friends in the Industry and then Knife Talk featuring 21 Savage and Project Pat. That one, too, knocks pretty hard. Only because 21. But let me say this. I think Bridal Path at 7 a.m. 7 a.m. on Bridal Path is good. 7 a.m. on Bridal Path, that's the only song where Drake is doing elite-level rhyming. Friend of the show, Rostam, texted me saying that's his favorite, actually. Oh, really? Well, musically, most of the songs are all kind of the same. The Too Sexy song that he thought was going to be the big smash single of the album is mid. It's not bad. Thank God the future's on it. We watched the video for that last night. Video's fine. The video, you know, it's fine. It's funny. And she was just like. I think Future saying I'm too sexy for this drink, talking about lean, is pretty cool. Well, in terms of like, you know, like obviously like you and I are, we're like too, we're too close to all of this to have like an unbiased opinion on things. Well, I didn't want to bring up my shout out, but go ahead. I heard the CB shout-out. But when you... Yeah, it was like CB pulled my car up and did my laundry. So it was a shout-out, but it was painting you in a good light. Don't do that. Don't do that. All the times I had to make... All the times... I washed the Maybach shirtless. I made CB check that I had enough socks in my bag. All the times I made CB check that there was enough Marvis in the tube. Had to go backtrack. Backtrack at LaGuardia.

You wasn't there. Since we were too close to it and we were like approaching it with too much of an analytical mind and blah, blah, blah. But when we were in the car listening to it, my girlfriend would just be like, oh, God, Drake is just so fucking corny. Like, oh, it's so bad, it's so bad. And then whenever Future would come on, she would uncontrollably, it wasn't a dance, but she would, you could see her feeling it. It was like a subconscious thing. Yeah. That's like the thing that Future has, and Drake knows that, and that's why he's smart, and that's why he's winning. It's cool because Future also hasn't had a song in years at this point. Kind of, yeah. I kind of know. Yeah, sure. That's true. That's what I'm saying, though. I don't know who's next because all these guys are kind of over the hill, it feels like. That's what's confusing. But my biggest takeaway from Certified Loverboy, I think we're ready for a Rick Ross resurgence. Well, you know, Devil in a New Dress, Kanye, and Rick Ross, that could be considered his finest work on a top-level feature. Agreed. But Rick Ross, I think that kind of energy is what we need. Like, Rick Ross doesn't make songs that, I mean, he only, he's not trying to be smart, and that's what I like about him. Neither is Future. Yeah, great point. So you weren't feeling it. When I heard the Too Sexy song, I was like, you know, the video, it kind of took me out of it. But then when I hear Future on it, he's just undeniably cool. And he's just like, fuck, you know, Future's just saying I'm too sexy for all this normal stuff. Like, you know, this drink and I'm too sexy for my life. Like, it's just a funny thing and a cool thing to say. Yeah, it's a real cool thing to say. It makes a lot of sense. But out of anyone else's mouth would be an asinine statement to make. But out of Future's mouth, it just fits right in perfectly, seamless. It's true. It just works. And then the Bridal Path song, I was like, anyone, even if you're a Drake hater, the thing that people would like about Drake so much back in the day is he's either doing this like...

this like take care crooning, which I actually did not like at all, but most people loved of like, yeah, these romantic sing songy moments and it's super emotional. And it's like basic person, emotional stuff, you know, like teens and, and people with low IQs can latch onto. Yeah. But then he also is, is he's so nerdy and he's so beta and he has so much time to like write down and do work. And like, he's like studies for his homework instead of cheating, you know, copying somebody else. So he really puts in the work in his wordplay and his transitions and his like puns and his, you know, all of his like little references. He's really good at it. And on that song, it was an album's worth of those all crammed into one song. And it was making me think of like, why didn't he just do... You have to have a direction for your album nowadays. It has to be a concept. Nowadays, every rap album is a collection of songs recorded over the last four years of just like, here's 100 songs. I asked the 10 homies what the best ones are, and we put them out. And then Kanye will try to have a concept for it wrapped around God and his mom, but it's still kind of not really very tangential at all. Or it's too tangential, and it's just going in directions. There's no through line. It's not just like, I'm going to put this on when I'm in a mood. You can't put the Drake record on for a thing. You can't put the Kanye record on for a thing. Other than just riding around and getting it, you can't really listen to the Drake album to do anything. There's no club bangers on it, and there's a little bit of, I'm impressed by the lyricism moments on some of it, but I wish that he picked a real direction of, here's just a bunch of club bangers. Yeah. Here's just a bunch of, like, for them. It's like me doing, like, wrapping circles around people. Like, because Drake can do that, as corny as he is. Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with you. I think these guys, I think that it's all being overthought is the problem. I mean, I think it's like, it's, I mean, the Kanye thing is completely overthought. It's like, everything you do is stupid. Because you can do all these great performances and get, but if there's no songs, it's like, what's the point?

I don't really get – if I pay money to go watch you levitate in a stadium while a bunch of unfinished tracks play in the background, what are we talking about? What is that at a certain point? You know what I mean? What are we doing? People are telling me that I don't get Donda. I need to listen to it 10 more times. I'm like, that's not how music works, guys. If I don't get it – It can be. It can be. No, fuck that. If you're a Kanye West pop artist, and I don't need to listen to your shit 10 times. It's not that serious. I think he's moved past pop artists, and I think he's moved into performance art. I think he's attempting to make a more profound and deeper statement with his body of work, and I don't think that he let anybody know that. He didn't give anybody the memo of what he was trying to do, and he was just kind of like, here's my shit. If you don't understand it, you're trash, and everyone's like, Yeah, you're Kanye West. You made gold digger. We don't understand this. You have to tell us what's going on. It's such a despondent, challenging listen that you have to give people instructions like, hey, I'm Kanye West. But I don't want to be challenged by music. I do. I don't want to be challenged by music. That's not what I'm trying. I don't want to be challenged by it. I want to enjoy it. I don't want to be challenged. I challenge myself in the gym, bro. Challenging music, challenging film. challenging art is obviously not for everyone and the minority of people you know it's just me and tom carell who are really fucking with it well no i mean i think it's also like challenging music from from kanye west is very different than challenging music as a whole right like i i don't i i don't think that that's what anyone's coming to him for and i don't think he's necessarily the guy to make it right no i mean it is a it is a transition uh a janky transition to move from The normal Kanye West of making, you know, like fun party songs into like God stuff, you know, or whatever, you know, like digital sermons. Well, so did you, do you like it? I don't think I would use the word like, no. But I think that, I mean, when we were listening to both of them, like my girl was like, you know, I don't like either of these at all. They're both very bad, but I like Kanye's record way more than Drake's record is what she said.

I put on Donda and there was the Donda chant as the first song where it's just Donda, Donda, Donda. Oh, I'm familiar with the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We all know. We all know it. And she was like, fuck out of here. Fuck this record. Like she went into it already like biggest gas phase of all time. And then by the fourth song, she was like, it's better than Drake's fucking bitch ass record. That's pretty much. And in a lot of ways, I agree. The Drake record is a better record in terms of just, like, hip-hop music, but Drake is such a cucked pussy that, you know, I don't know. I would rather hear a cucked pussy than a, like, religious, like, loser. Yeah, the religious part is bad. The religious part is just so insanely stupid to me. And, like, I don't even care about the other stuff. Like, I mean, the fact that all of these fucking, white liberals love him so much and debate him after he brought out Marilyn Manson and DaBaby and stood next to Trump. It's fascinating. Like, with no songs, bro. No songs. With no songs. With merch. You guys are that excited about this guy. It's crazy. I've never seen anyone be forgiven by society so easily with no discernible reason. Like, there's no reason to forgive Kanye West. He hasn't put out a good song in five years. Yeah. The best song, actually, and this makes me mad, and it's underappreciated, is Four or Five Seconds with Rihanna and Paul McCartney. That's the best Kanye West song in five years. Easily the best five years. An incredible vocal performance from Rihanna. We got a legendary Beatle on the shit. They're wearing cool denim in the fucking photo. There's no church. There's no mention of his dead mom. There's no fucking... The only thing missing is Mike Dean. If any of our listeners forgot that Chris Black was white, they just got reminded of that right now. Don't worry about it. Bro, that song is better than anything on Donda. Easily. Easily better than anything on Donda. It actually has a structure. Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone is debating that. I think that's the problem. It's the battle of like...

donda is not music it's challenging performance art to absorb and you're being too nice it's not music it's just smooth brain vibes and that's the problem with it smooth brain vibes it's 10 minute songs bro like who wants a 10 minute song sometimes i do i don't know if i want it from kanye west well that's what i'm saying i know you want some like despondent techno but Yeah, it's tough because you got to, like what I was talking about before, when do I listen to this? When do I listen to this Kanye record? You can't listen to it in the club. It's a bizarre record that has chants and spoken word and symphonic solos and weird moments. But you also can't chill at home and meditate and listen to it because in between those... you know, string arrangements and these calming moments, there'll be like this like Merzbau style, like electronic glitch sound where it's like, so like you can't relax and listen to it. So you have to literally just like stand in a room on guard preparing yourself for it. But, you know, when we were listening to it and my girl was just like, It makes sense now why he did these listening parties because this isn't music that you can play at a concert. You have to play it at a listening party because you can't turn up to it. You can't rush the gates and sing along to every song because there's no lyrics. You have to sit in a stadium-style seat and just watch a maniac run around in circles You know, a rapist hangs out on a porch next to him, you know, next to some SIR speaker rentals. And then a guy who hates gay people, you know, wears like a baklava next to him. It's all torched. And then you have to be like, damn, this is wild. It's all, I just can't, I wish we didn't have to deal with him anymore.

I wish that he... I like it. I like it. Because he's the only one who's still being provocative, but the problem is his provocations are too misguided. But it's like, bro, the Sex Pistols were provocative, but then they had songs, bro. You gotta have songs. It's crazy. We're talking about everything about this, but there's no songs. You can perform, you can sell sneakers, you can sell merch, you can do all this shit, but like... These fucking 18-year-old fucking white boys that shop at Kith, they don't care about the music. They don't care if they're songs or not. They think it's cool to like... For whatever reason, we've been duped. A certain part of society has been duped in thinking it's very cool to like Kanye West and act like you understand it. It's the end-all, be-all of taste. That's the issue. It's the infinite jest of the rap game. Yeah, 100%. Like, you guys don't get this shit. Stop acting like you do. You don't fucking know what's going on. You just want to wear Yeezys and buy a shirt with his dead mom's face on it. Like, for what? It's crazy, dude. I mean, at least, look, Drake might be corny, but at least that shit, I mean, they both sound, like, expensive, which I like. You know what I mean? It's, like, obviously, like, well-produced. Yeah. But, like. Drake doesn't have a slap on this shit by any means, but there are songs with structure that at least follow what music should be. It's not meandering noises. I agree. And that's like, call me closed-minded. Sorry that I like a song with structure in it. True, true, true. I think it's also with Kanye, you know what he's capable of, so this is even more disappointing. Just like our good friend Jesus Christ or the Christian church that he is. proselytizing he has done an amazing job at at selling us on himself in a way that we're like the music doesn't even matter anymore no nothing it's just a spectacle when you really think about what he's doing

He was living in a football stadium, wearing a mask and a vest with his album title on it, lifting weights, and having 2 Chainz record in a locker room. It's all insane. When you actually think about it, it's like, this is so dumb. If you watch WWF wrestling, it's the same thing as that. If you're into, like, I grew up, like, wrestling in college and watching Greco-Roman wrestling and jujitsu and all that stuff. And then you watch, like, here, watch this WWE fight between The Undertaker and Stone Cold Steve Austin. And you're just like, what the fuck is this? Like, that's kind of what it has turned into now. Where, like, it's not about any of the actual pure art form, the original thing. It's all about... the show it's all about the spectacle it's about the marketing it's about the emotion behind it it's about every single thing except it's about the merchandise it's about the photos it's about making a sign and showing it and telling other people and associating with it but it's none of it is about the actual music anymore but this is a problem i mean bro the casey musgrave songs are a fucking dud like i'm just like it's crap but she has a crazy rollout with like a movie i don't want a fucking movie from you guys like stop making movies like you're not beyonce Don't make a movie. Make an album. We're good. We don't need a movie. We don't need 14 music videos. Nobody cares about that shit. I think the problem is, Chris, the people do care about that shit now, and that's what the problem is. Well, no, here's the thing. They care about it for 24 hours on Twitter. No one's going back and watching a music video. People will go back and listen to music. you know what i mean like you you can't like i go back and listen to records all the time i've never i don't go back and watch a music video who does that well nowadays the stands who can't afford title will do that no they got youtube premium is it a thing where we're we're aged out and that's just what it is and like our like we're doing the modern day version of like oh like

a real album is on vinyl and there's two sides and you listen to it in your study while you smoke a cigar and have a glass of cognac. And that's what music is. I mean, I think there's some truth to that, but I also think that like the basis of all of this, either way, right or wrong, is there being songs to listen to, you know? So I don't, I think that is, I mean, I don't care what format it is. Give me this shit on, you know, I want a burned out MP3. If it's got a hit on it, I can hear it at least. Is it the problem that our traditional recording industry business model that has been fucked out and destroyed now to the point is they have to make all this shit in order to find success? You can't make money just making good songs anymore. You have to have a stadium merch booth and you have to have a video that Petra Collins directs where she's like... oh my god, she copied the Clueless movie. This is so genius. Do you remember Clueless? That was such a good movie. Yeah, there's some truth to that. It's all bullshit. There's some truth to that. Even the people that are artists now. It's just a wild time, man. I think there's some truth to that, though. I mean, I think it's like Billie Eilish having... It's the same reason why Balenciaga makes a video game instead of good clothes. Yeah, there's no... It's all about the spectacle. It's not about the product. And that is the society we live in to an extent. I mean, I think that like... That's why Venmo would never do that. No, of course not. How could... could they? No, they're too advanced to play those silly games. Thank you. Yeah, I find both of these pretty disappointing. And I mean, like I said, the Drake has three or four songs I'll probably listen to again. But like, I listened to Donda once and was like, I'm never going to listen to that again. I'm trying to think about it. It's like COVID. What was the Drake song where it was basically just like the story of his baby mama and all that stuff? Like, she's stripping and she's trying to... I like when he says, I'm a lesbian too. No, not that part. That was bad. That's fire. That was one of the cheesiest moments of the album for sure. I think in the 90s, I remember being a little kid and seeing a shirt that said Lesbians Rule or something like that. It's very Beavis and Butthead level comedy, which I guess at the time, depending on how young you are, is cool. But there's one where I was like, oh, Drake is really feeling some... I don't know. I connected emotionally with him when he was telling the story of...

his baby mama like the plight of uh an adult entertainer or whatever like a stripper chick and like she's trying to go She's trying to go legal, and she's got a business plan. She's living with her sister, trying to figure it out, and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's because Drake is a known Captain Save-A-Ho. He is a known Captain Save-A-Ho, and I like that he was leaning into that and being honest about his tendencies of being like, I'm not able to resist the urge to find... You know, a young woman with a gigantic ass and tried to change her life with my large amount of money. Oh, yeah, you got a fat ass on you? I got a little fat wallet that'll match, baby. Come through. Come to the bridle path and let me show you what's really good. Lean into it. Be yourself. Don't be something that you're not. You know, that's where Drake falters, where it's like... If he's talking about his, you know, he doesn't have big dick energy. He's got, I pay for hoes energy. And if he leans into that, then it's relatable because there's millions of people who can relate to that, you know, on both sides of the transaction. That's true. And now you've got something that makes like a really deep emotional connection with people. Be your corny self and lean into it. You are who you are and you have to be authentic to who you are. And when Drake was like, this kind of like the emotional simp kind of cut guy and it's believable you know like people that was when people loved him they believed him and he was emotional and he was simping for chicks and he was being you know like vulnerable and blah blah blah and like That's when people fell in love with him because he was being him. He was being honest. Yeah, bro. I mean, look, if you ain't cry, if you've never cried to Marvin's room, you're lying. Right. And there's that. And now he's like, well, I'm very buff and I have a watch that costs more than most people will ever make in their entire life. And every hour it says a different sex position on it. And people are like, okay, less relatable.

That's relatable. You know, like after a certain point, you're going to get so big. You know, it's the same thing that I feel about like Jay-Z where he's just like, you know, he was like the ultimate street rapper and he's talking about selling drugs and killing people and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yes, this is awesome. This is just like how I want to do. And then after eventually, you know, eventually he's talking about like, you know, like different tailors that he goes to and like 401k plans and like his stock options and his Roth IRA thing. Then it's like, okay, rocking with you less. I don't know if I want to hear songs about what my retirement plan is. After a while, you have to talk to your market. Sorry you don't have any Basquiat, loser. That's on you, dog. You ain't got a single Basquiat, you little broke ass. The irony of who else writes songs about investment plans. Truly no one. Other than rappers. True. No one. Totally no one. Absolutely not. Even, like, canceled. From the Rolling Stones to Mozart to Blink-182, you do what you do. You be authentic. We're Blink-182. You know, like, this chick that I want to have sex with thinks I'm a dork. Like, okay, cool. Eight billion people can relate to that. That's relatable for you, which I understand. When Drake is talking about, like... You know, like the helicopter is having problems at Teterboro. But that is their reality. That's the thing. Like, that's really what they're really talking about. Like, Jay-Z, I mean... Drake is a good example. He ain't ever killed anybody. I'd rather him talk about simping for chicks and that his jet is having oil problems because that's, like, real. And same thing with... Yeah, that's true. Like, I don't want to hear Jay-Z's boring-ass grown-man 40-40 rap, but, like, that's his reality. It's like if he was talking about selling drugs in 2021, it would be like, well, you're lying. Like, you don't know. You don't do it. You're 50 years old, and you live a... completely removed from normal society. You know, it's like... Good point. That's a good point. The converse selection to that is Jay-Z saying, I see myself in God. That's a selfie. Yeah, I mean... So then, like, what's better or worse? I mean, it's all bad. It's all bad. I don't want to hear any of it, but that's because I think that I also don't... I think it's relatable to less people, like you're saying, but I also think that it's like...

Do these guys care? It doesn't matter. It is authentic to it. Those are the things that Drake really is doing. It still works. These guys will still sell. People will gush over Don didn't say it's fucking genius. People will say Drake's the greatest rapper alive. They make more and more and more money, and it doesn't matter what they do. There's no critic. Nothing matters. That's why it all works, because people don't actually care. Back then, you used to put on an album or a record. or an EP, or whatever form of music it is when you're in the mood for something. It's like, I want to do this, so I'm going to listen to this. I have the perfect soundtrack for this one, whatever it is. I'm going to put Rye on for this dinner party of my fucking cucked friends who work at my agency, or I want to have sex with this person. So I'm going to put this record on. I know you like to put on that. I know you like to put on that D'Angelo unplugged when things are getting sexy. You know what I'm saying? I do know that about you. Yeah, exactly. Or I want to fight someone, so I'm going to put this on. Or I'm feeling really sad and depressed, so I'm going to put this on. And those things don't exist anymore. And now people are trying to figure out why do we listen to music anymore? Why do we watch movies or TV shows anymore? just banal entertainment in general, just generic entertainment, or is it only to sell hoodies? It's only to sell hoodies. Well, it's to sell tickets to shows and bundles. But we don't go to shows for the music anymore. We go to the shows so we can post the photo on Instagram and get enough likes, and maybe we'll show up on most popular Explore page hashtag for the Donda activation at this place. We have a chance to show off our outfit and hang out with like-minded individuals who also dress badly and want to kill themselves. Don't talk about sweatpants like that. They didn't do shit to you. Fucking hater ass motherfucker. I don't know. I think we got to wrap it up. I'm torched. I've had enough. I can't. No way. Yeah. Chris, do you think they burned garbage in Italy? That's what my chick was trying to ask me.

There's a lot of little fires all over Italy, and I was like, what is this? Well, no, they're burning Dolce & Gabbana that didn't sell last season, and then maybe some garbage as well. She was like, no, they burn all the trash. That's what it is. I believe that. But it might be the Dolce & Gabbana. I think they burn all that. I mean, all that. I mean, the Palm Angels is still selling. They ain't burning that, so maybe it is trash. I saw a little Palm while I'm here. All right, well, yeah, we can wrap it if you want to. Anyway, you guys go check out. you know, Donda and certified lover boy. You know, I'm sure, I'm sure you're bumping it. They may already have. I'm sure you're bumping in the civic on your, on the way to bad groceries at Publix where you work. And you know, it's, it's for you. It ain't for us. You know what I mean? But there's also this, now there's this new. leak of a song that's kanye and andre 3000 that people are very excited about so i'll have to go listen to that when we when we finish here yeah how does how does he not put andre on that's what i mean bro he doesn't want to be upstaged you know how it is jason but look man i'm i'm happy to hear that you've only put on eight pounds and um that you're you ran out of cigarettes uh but we need you back we need you back stateside asap um I am going to be appearing on the Throwing Fits podcast. Unfortunately in New York. The Throwing Fits podcast a day after this comes out on Tuesday. I went all the way to Greenpoint where all the retired cool people and skateboarders live to tap in. How was that? It was great. I drank a whole bottle of Fiji. James had some weird off-brand kind of stuff in his bathroom, but I don't want to talk about that. And please get tickets for the tour. We are getting dangerously close to kicking off October 1st in Atlanta at the Earl. More on that this week. And I think that's it, TJ. I think that is it. Thank you guys for listening, bearing with us.

Well, I'm on holiday, but yeah, I'll be back in town soon, and we'll be back on our regularly scheduled bullshit. Lots of big guests coming up soon. Yeah, it's about to be an absolute motion picture right up until the tour, and that will just continue. We don't have any barbers coming on this week, but we'll have some other bigger people soon. All right. That's it. TJ, I love your work, bro. Have fun over there. All joking aside, I'm glad you got to take a vacation and you enjoy that kind of stuff. So, anyway, have some cacio e pepe for me and I will talk to you later, gang. Grazie, Christopher. Grazie. Grazie.