758. - Sarah Hoover

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Beautiful, freezing Thursday in New York City. Jason is in the building. How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. It is cold, but it is not as cold as all my friends were warning me about, which I feel good about. I don't need my Heat Tech Arc'teryx garter belts. Although, if you do wear a wide-legged pant, you do sort of get a Marilyn Monroe. Get some breeze in there. It goes up in there, up into my meat and two veg. It starts tickling my micropanis. But other than that, I'm fine. I've got my scully on. I've got my gloves. I've got my parka. It's not a big deal. But that being said, I have mainly been walking from the door of my hotel to the door of the Uber and back. That's what I was going to say. Once you're out there hoofing it, it hits you a little harder. But if you don't hoof it, you're fine. which is a great way to approach it. Yeah, it's exhilarating. Or maybe I'm just getting better at the cold. Who knows? But yeah, I got in last night, and then I was like, I'm going to do that thing where I go to the gym and just hit the treadmill for 30. The first thing you do when you land kind of thing. And then the good people at The Standard had a nice charcuterie plate and a couple of beers.

on the table and you know next thing you know my ass watching family guy sorry to hear that instead of going to the gym it's fine i would say that's what tomorrow is for but i'm not going to do that tomorrow either so i'm just trying to balance it out by not eating yeah that's going to go well for you since i'm sure you have reservations for lunch and dinner for four days in a row so no lunch i got no lunches planned at all um but dinners are heavily booked well i'm going to penny tonight so i'm just going to be eating mollusks and things like that mussels clams clams just loose crab meat can i get can i get a pound of uh loose crab meat please like sir we don't call it loose crab meat but yeah i went to bridges last night had some delicious oysters had some king crab Had some sardines. So these are all my high omega-3 super foods. But what did you have for dinner? Because did you have to stop afterwards to get some of this to eat? No, no, no. There was some duck. I mean, I even had like a sherry ice cream at the end. That was quite nice. Oh, that sounds fun. A little bread and butter. But all that is to say, I'm able to eat well here without having like a belly bomb, gut busting. I'm not eating like four Charles gooey cheeseburger tater tot with truffle sauce. It's not like when you're in LA getting fat sals delivered every night. It's totally different. Your approach is just totally different. They got a Raising Cane's here, but I'm staying away from it. And, you know, I'm not one of those people that's like, I got to get my bagel every morning. You know, it's black coffee. I mean, a bagel is... probably the best possible thing, but you can't. The best possible thing just... No, I mean like in New York breakfast culture. Because it's not like L.A. where there's breakfast places where you can go get eggs. It's like a little harder to do that on like a weekday. You know? Yeah. But a bagel, I just can't. Once you go down that road, it's too slippery. It is. Too slippery. It's too slippery. I can't. I don't care how much you whip the cream cheese. Nah, bro. I'm still going to put enough of it on there. Yeah. Well, they also, famously in New York, you know, they put so much fucking cream cheese. It's like enough for three. Mm-hmm.

I don't understand the wasteful. I love it. I love it. Corporations book flights that they've known about for six months the week before, so it costs as much as possible. It's very similar. I'm like, why are we doing it this way? I hope all y'all are listening, producer, lazy-ass producers, but that's actually a thing that Carolyn and I have talked about before where people mention salt, fat, acid, heat. These are all the... like the scientific parts of what makes food taste better than other foods. And I think one of the other dimensions that we like is the feeling of knowing that we're never going to have to ration or run out of whatever we need to put in our mouth to feel satisfied by this. That is to say the joy you get of free refills on something. Don't bring up Chili's chips and salsa like that. You know that'll get me in my stomach. Let's do it again. Run it back. Let's say you and I and David Cho are going to go to Mission Chinese Food. and they're like hey we you know we we dropped this one dish and it's really good let's say it's it's wings you know and there's three guys and we're all big boys we can all put down you know half dozen dozen just on our own they drop uh you know they drop a dozen wings and suddenly it's a little fight or flight it's like all right how you know am i going to be able to get enough wings where i feel like i got enough wings and knowing that we're now you know like When I get a bucket of ranch versus the one little half. filled container i know what you're saying i gotta be like judicious about every single bite well that's how it used to be in new york with plastic bags and that was the greatest part about is that you could get they give you a plastic bag for a coffee for a fucking anything anything you get a plastic bag you forgot your bag you had a nice collection of plastic bags under the sink for trash purposes or if somebody need to take something home now that's going in the in the bathroom wastebasket isn't it chris now you got these paper bags that fucking rip they're stingy with the fucking bags or they're

some sort of you know the one thing trump is doing is getting rid of is getting rid of paper straws which is something that i i stand behind greatly even the turtles even the turtles agree it's like bro get out of here these milkshakes don't work that way bro get me get out of the turtle community stood up okay we were we were talking about um the drake video where everyone was wondering if it was real or fake and it it has If you haven't seen it, there's a video where a drone flies up to Drake's penthouse hotel room window and then begins, you know, surveilling him candidly in his house. And then Drake comes out with an orange flip-flop and tries to throw it to shoo the drone away. Let me say something about... He does throw the shoe like the way a woman would do something. Let me say this, and this is going to be embarrassing for me. But I knew that video was fake because when Drake comes out to throw the sandal, he had his actor face on. He's got a different face when he's in actor mode. Than when he's in fake thug rap mode. He was mewing. Yeah. He was mewing. But honestly, I was like, oh, this is fake. I could tell by the face he's making. He's making SNL face. He's not making hard face. But also, that's a good point and a good tell. For me, my tell was, oh, why is Drake wearing cowboy boots inside of his hotel room? You would take those off, I'm assuming. Unless he was just getting home or just getting ready to leave. His pedicure might have been, you know, he couldn't bring his pedicurist with him. I'm saying, if he's wearing shoes, that's fine. If he's got some ones on, whatever, it's fine. Cowboy boots. But wearing the cowboy boot inside the hotel room, to me that was a tell. But there's a chance that he organically comes out of his patio door, sees the drone there. And he knows in his head, I am Drake. There's probably a camera here attached to this drone. So he's subconsciously going to start doing blue steel face. He's going to start mewing just because he's a born content creator. I just think anybody believing anything is real is pointless. Like, come on. Like, there's no way. I'm saying Drake will walk past the reflection of himself on a Whole Foods.

and give himself that same look. No, that's true. It had me wondering because everyone's like, oh, of course it's fake, another steak ad, blah, blah. I want to know how – I mean, obviously the answer is no or none, but what does that video have to do with a gambling, a sports gambling website? I think it has – us talking about steak right now and that it works and it because we said it was on dailymail.com front page and it's steak this steak that it's like it's that it's honestly kind of so it's just it's just simply name recognition i think it's kind of brilliant unfortunately in a lot of ways i agree i well that's how i feel about it it is both amazing subversive um performance art as well as an instruction manual on how to further perpetuate our dystopian future. There's so many kids who are just like, why didn't I think of that? Of course I'm going to go fly my drone into every high-end luxury hotel. I'm going to fly it into Sydney Sweeney's villa when she's staying in Kauai. So now everyone's like, oh, okay, cool, this is a great way for me to... give our celebrities even less privacy. But on the subject of Drake and dystopia, somebody tweeted a photo of him in Australia. And there's all these, he's on stage and the crowd is behind him. And every single person in the crowd is holding up a homemade sign. And instead of it, you know, being like the OVO owl logo or like, you know, a BBL Drizzy thing or whatever. It's people pleading with Drake for money. That's because he gave a fan $25,000. And so the next night, everyone showed up with a sign along those same lines. That's why. But the signs are so... Like, okay, one of them, I got hit by a car and left the hospital. Help pay off my mom's mortgage.

fund my child's first birthday yeah it's a little it's a little dark yeah my dog has to go to the vet i can't afford an engagement ring for my wife my father's in a nursing home i you know and he needs you know like imagine drake is like i'm i'm finally made it i'm at the top i'm i'm gonna he's you know motley crew is in the 80s they're scanning the crowd to see which baddies are gonna suck and fuck after the show and drake just sees people who are like you know, hoping for a handout because their grandparents are, you know, can't afford transportation to the hospital. I think that's the kind of behavior that Drake encourages, and he probably regrets that every day of his life. He probably regrets that every day of his life. The up and the down ting. He would much rather be fucking and sucking, that's for sure. Yeah, well, okay, what else we got? I flew on Delta into a cold and snowy... And I would say the vibe on the airplane was a lot different. When you're sitting in Delta One, some lay flat seats will have the regular seat belt, and then they'll have the shoulder strap that you have to put on when you're in a car or whatever. And they were very... adamant about making sure that shoulder strap specifically adamant really gets thrown over the body because there's a there's a one in four chance that we're gonna land this thing upside down and that shoulder strap's gonna come in handy i would happy happily be in a delta plane crash if i don't die if they gave me more they're only offering 30 bands they're only offering 30 bands per passenger if you offered me 250 Between $250,000 and $500,000 and I come away unscathed and get to tell that story for the rest of my life, that's a W. Yeah, but it reminds me of if that happened in the 90s. It's much more commonplace, it seems. We all realize that human beings will take much less money than we thought.

But you would hear stories about, you know, like, oh, that guy's mom was in a plane crash in the 90s. And like, oh, I mean, they're set for a lot. Like, they're never, you know, got 40 million, whatever. Like, so you'd hear those stories. And then now 30,000. is but obviously you know that's a starting point for a negotiation 30 bands 30 bands that even cover my goyard backpack and all the cash that was in it bro what you mean like i don't i'm fucking this is no no i i do think it's a starting point but i'm sure delta is a little upset that that's the number that leaks because i i mean who's to say who's to say like who who gets to decide how much money that's worth you know it's kind of like a per case basis. But how does that not leak? I mean, if you're the Delta damage control person, you're like, all right, now you got to promise you don't tell anyone this number where you could sell to TMZ for double that $30,000, just this email. Actually, Jason, TMZ don't pay that well. I've heard that they do pay well. They do not. That whole New Yorker story talks about how the Whitney Houston photo was like $10,000 or something. It was a different time. But that is low. I would say that's a better time because it was less competitive. You know what I mean? TMZ was the only game in town. The NDA of it all is also crazy. Like if you're negotiating with, even on my favorite show, Landman, when a bunch of oil riggers died, the first thing they do before they pay you is make you sign something that says, you're not going to tell anybody that you signed this. You're not going to tell anybody that we paid you. That's like, I thought that was kind of par for the course for a giant corporation. Yeah. And if you break that NDA, I'd hate to come. Come back down here, senorita. Imagine you break the Delta NDA, you're stuck on spirit for the rest of your life. Fuck that, bro. I ain't even flying American. Fuck that. You fucked up. You fucked up, bro. Not even coach. We're not letting you on this plane. Yeah, so we're blaming all of this on Trump, which is why every plane crash, you know, once a day, there's a new plane crash since Trump dropped. But even more glaring change in my Delta experience post-Trump was,

We have replaced the Sun Chips with Cheez-Its. I don't want to say that's the Chris effect, but, I mean, it feels like somebody over at Delta Corp knows what snack is superior, and Sun Chips haven't been good since 2005. I know Doocy's listening, but Delta is listening, too. Duh, comma, Elta. D apostrophe, L-T-A. Like Monique. No, I think the beauty of the sun chip on Delta was that it's something you truly don't encounter anywhere else. So it felt like a fun. It's a bygone treat. Yeah, it's like that contract must have expired. And then Big Cheese, it came in and said, what do you want? We got flavors. We got regular. We got extra toasty. We could do baked, fried, steamed. What do you want? Yeah, we'll see. It's just like when I order my catfish. New England style, Manhattan style, Rhode Island style. Well, that's good to know. I mean, that's actually bad to know for me because then I'll be tempted. The Biscoff wasn't enough. Now you got to tempt me with fucking Cheez-Its. I do think the Cheez-Its may have been baked. They had a different mouthfeel to them. I don't like that. That could have just been the air pressure and stuff. You know what I mean? I guess you're right. I want to disagree with you, but you are making some good points. All right. I know that I'm the food expert, but you're a million miler. I'm a million miler. Actually, on our flight, Carolyn was sitting next to a guy who was thanked for his service for being a two million miler. And then everyone is like, damn, two million miler. Immediately after, thanks another million miler. Three. I know. I know, dude. Have you ever seen a three in the wild? Sam Hine told me about this when he was flying to like a YSL show in like Hong Kong or something. And he was like, bro, every guy in Delta One was like a three million miler because they just go business. That's just what they run that program. That Hong Kong run. Hong Kong. All right. We have a guest today. Sarah Hoover is an author. Her book, The Motherload, is out now. And Jason and I both really enjoyed it.

I'm in the middle of enjoying it right now. She's a real piece of work in the best way possible, and I'm glad that she took the time to chat with us. Yeah, her book, it's a very real and honest accounting of childbirth and relationships. She's married to artist Tom Sachs, so you get to hear a lot of dirt on Big T. Yeah, it's a wild fucking book, and Sarah's a really smart girl, and we had a good time chatting with her. We'll see you at On Air Fest today, 11 a.m. with Jason Isbell. Yeah. And then tomorrow night at Jeans. Jeans. Or tonight at Jeans. We'll see you then. Tonight at Jeans. Yeah, them Jeans. We got some special guest DJs, our friend Ludwig and Barclay opening. Come on down. No snow. Supposed to be sunny, and we're going to play some dance music. Thank you. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled. Over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money.

When life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code HOWLONG. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code HOWLONG with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down.

the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. What are we talking about today? I mean, we're going to talk about whatever you want, Queen. The floor is yours, really. I do feel royal. Well, first of all, I was searching your name on other pods to see what pods you've done. Is this the first male podcast you've done? Yes. I generally view your species as like the mortal enemy, but you came... Very highly regarded. Okay. And we're introduced by Tia, who does no wrong. One of the greats. So you're saying that we're approved. We've made it past the usual barrier of men. Yes. The few, the proud. They've been promised to me that these are not two Justin Baloney's, or whatever the fuck his name is. Is that even his name? Baloney, sorry. Justin Baloney is better. It is better. Okay. But I think... Justin Baloney is going to get off. I'm telling you right now, it's on her. Blake is the bad guy here, I'm telling you. Well, no one's a good guy. That's true. That's true. And I'm not saying hashtag believe men. I'm just saying that I think that Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are so powerful that they could have someone killed if they wanted to. Yeah, I know. It's spooky, right? But the most fascinating thing about all of this is we're all seeing how the sausage is made.

It seems like this is just kind of par for the course in Hollywood. Like, everyone's on the defensive. Everyone has teams. Everyone's spinning shit all the time. Like, you think politics are bad. I know. But Hollywood's actually bad. That's why I like it. I think this makes them all cooler, honestly. Like, it's more interesting than their personas. Well, that's not hard. That bar is in hell. But, yes, agreed. The bar is on the floor. The bar is on the floor. The bar is on the floor. Okay, so the way Chris said, he's not a hashtag believe all men person. Are you an all-men-are-useless person, or do you like some men? I like dick. Okay. Okay, here's the thing about men. Unfortunately, it's attached to a man. I just called it out because I was listening to you on a great podcast with a person named Stassi. Oh, yeah. Stassi from Bravo? From Vanderpump Rules. Yeah, one of the legends in OG. Okay, sorry. One of our great minds in the audio space, and a quote I read of yours, you said, men are well-intended but useless, which is sweet. I would like to give that some context. I think that culture does not adequately prepare men to be equal partners to women in this world. It's not your fault. Well, as long as it's not my fault, because usually it is my fault, so that's kind of nice to hear. I feel kind of bad, you know. Men have really failed me in my life, straight men. But I have to approach them with empathy because, like, none of you are that set up for success. Like, your moms have been jerking you off since you were four. Not literally. Metaphorically. Not literally. No, not literally. My mom listens to this podcast, so that's interesting. Well, she is a sweet angel, but she's been doing your laundry your entire life. Facts. She'll do Jason's laundry when he stays over at my parents' house. It's full service. Exactly. And she does it because it's easy for her because she lives in a patriarchy where she's had to develop a skill set where her executive functioning skills are wild. And she's like, you know what? Chris and Jason aren't capable of this. I'm just going to do it because it's not that hard for me. But the problem is she's like enabled your type.

to not have to go above and beyond and bend over backwards and have, you know, 8 million multitasking things going on at once. So it's just hard for you guys to be, it's hard for you to be like equal partners to women in the world. But it's not because you're not capable. I don't think like men are genetically predispositioned to be useless. I just think you've been trained to be a little bit useless. But I still like you a lot. Okay. But are you speaking of useless to planet Earth or useless to womanhood specifically? Let's say, Sarah, let's say you need a spark plug changed. Probably going to have to call a guy for that, aren't you? No, I'm going to YouTube how to do it and do it myself. Because if I have to call a guy for it, I have to call him nine fucking times to get him to start doing it. I have to nag him. Well, y'all do be nagging, though. Let's keep it a stack. If we're incompetent, y'all are nagging. But she's saying she has to nag because it takes nine nags for us to finally get everything done. Do you think I'm nagging because it's fun? I think there's some pleasure in nagging, depending on the subject. Well, there is pleasure in nagging because I have built up resentment. And it's one of the ways that I can get rid of that energy. A little steam off in the nag department. Totally. And also, I will say, like... For me, I'm often controlled by my hormones. This is my weakness. This is my Achilles heel. And when I'm a mix of hungry, annoyed, and hormonal, there is no straight white man that is safe. Yeah, that's every woman. To be fair, I think that's every woman. Yeah. Not that you're not a special snowflake. You are. But that feels like something I've experienced before in my personal life. Yeah. I keep a separate calendar of my period schedule that I share with my husband just so he knows when to anticipate. So hold on. You got to Google Cal that's just period based? Yeah. That's my favorite to your species. You're welcome. Does the calendar have a fun name at least to gamify the situation? It's called Red. Like a Taylor album. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it's like my favorite charity that Bono is involved with. Oh, I know all about that one. I used to work at Gagosi and we did their auction every year. It feels like one of the biggest scams that's ever existed, but I'm sure the money goes to the right place. Yeah. I don't know enough about the inner workings, but I think any of those like massive charities, I'm not speaking about Red. I have no idea. But a lot of those big charities, I think there's just so much waste because there's like bureaucracy. Well, yeah. It's a...

All charities are created usually by a rich person to give a family member or spouse a high-paying job where they can bury that in the charity. It's like when Usher starts a charity, Usher's uncle is in charge of the charity. He's getting a million-dollar salary, let's say, for example. That's a common Usher. That was good. I almost thought he was here for a second. I didn't have my glasses on. Is it you in the room, Usher Raymond? Oscar, are you here with us now? Okay, well, do you resent the fact that women have to sort of train men? Like, it's your job. Like, if you don't teach us men how to do all this stuff, then it's never going to get done? Yeah, I have resented that at times in my life, but I quit doing it. You quit resenting or you quit teaching then? I quit teaching. I gave up. Okay. You gave up. You said, my time as an educator is over. Okay, yeah. I'm resigning. And I'm going to let you all say stupid and figure your own shit out. I made it very clear to my husband at a certain point after the birth of my first kid, about a year after, two years after, we had like a real come to Jesus. And I was like, I no longer lift. a single finger. Sarah, to be fair, the book feels like a whole come to Jesus. That's what it is. I got him back. And you're saying you're having another, you're having post birth. It's time for another one is what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jesus has risen again. I'm not lifting fingers for men anymore. And it's like kind of working out. Okay. When you see lift, lift a finger, I need, I need an example of something that maybe Jason and I would think is kind of normal day to day behavior when you're in a relationship. but something where you're like, I ain't doing that. Like if my husband leaves dishes in the sink, previous me would like resentfully put them in the dishwasher and like sigh to indicate I was annoyed. And now I just leave them there and I don't remind him. And I just, and then when he's like, where there's no spoons, how am I going to stir my coffee? And like, that feels like an utterly you problem. This feels like, this feels like what some might define as a microaggression.

But I understand where you're coming from. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, like I understand how you could classify it as a microaggression. But can there even be microaggressions to white men, white straight men? I don't think so. Look, I'll take all my lumps. I don't give a shit. I deserve everything that comes to me. I 100% agree with you. You're a true ally. We like the lumps. Well, I'm also a, I take care of the household. Good. So the gender roles are reversed, you know? But do you feel like you're really – like do you take care of the household the way a woman would take care of the household? I would say it's probably I'm not doing quite as good of a job. Yeah, like how thorough are you? I mean I'm scheduling things. I'm dealing with laundry. I'm dealing with dishes. I'm doing all of those things. Did you say recently that you pack? Yeah, I pack. I don't let a woman pack for me. Jason does. And no shade, Jason. No shade. But when you pack, do you use packing cubes? No, no, that's for women. No, no, we're straight. OK, we're straight. Yeah, that that packing cubes. I know they work, but that's too far. OK, got it. Just seeing where the chips fall. Now I understand. Where's the line? OK, well, would you would you say that there is a thin line between being a well-adjusted straight male who. can run a household, do dishes and laundry and clean the bathroom, blah, blah, blah. Is there a way that that gets a little too far in that sort of cuck realm where you are no longer attracted to them? Does that make sense? Yes. Like if you get a straight guy who's so good at doing all this shit, you don't want to suck that dick. You don't want that. Okay. My attraction to men is really, I'm probably an anomaly, but it's really based on intellect. and humor so you're saying you can all right well get ready damn you're different than these other hosts get ready crazy you're saying you're attracted to the mind you ain't checking for the wallet come on now well while it it certainly helps but it helps because it usually i mean look the worst case scenario is like a rich kid who's

I don't care how smart you are. If you're like a lame, lazy, rich kid, that's not hot. But if your wallet is incredible because you are ambitious and hardworking and brilliant, who'd you just yell at? There's housekeeping knocking on the hotel door. Sorry. Oh, got it, got it, got it. Okay. I thought you had a rich guy back there for me. I got really excited. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues. Obviously. Maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston,

South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep-end DJ, a road dog? Or a trail mixer. Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. Yeah, he's got, he's got, it's not him. If he ducks down, there might be some rich guys back there behind him. There are no rich guys in my hotel room right now. Wait, where are you? I'm at the Standard East Village. Oh. Hello, we could be in the same room right now. We could definitely be in the same room. We should have, sorry. I'm in Soho, too, but it's better to do it this way. Yeah, that's fair. It's awkward when you're like, will we sit three abreast? Yeah, I think it'd be more. Well, we don't do video at all, so it's easier to edit when we're in our own little cunning room booth. Okay, this makes sense. Great. I approve of the setup. Back to being a pocket checker. You're saying that a lazy rich kid, of course, no one likes that. But you're saying usually, or in some cases, if a man is sitting on a fat wallet, it's because he's good at something and intellectual in his own way. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Intellect on its own doesn't get you very far if you're like, you know. not ambitious and you just have a lot of ideas but you don't do anything with them but like a man who's really smart and figures out how to manage that intelligence into a way that makes him money is kind of like that's prime meat oops there goes my shirt up over my head type shit when you when you meet one of those fellas when you put it that way this is who could disagree with that

Okay, well, I guess, well, the original question that I was running into, like, if you find, like, is there a scenario where a guy is too good at all of these things that most men are devoid of? Like, if you got a guy who's like, I picked up the dry cleaning and I took, I walked your dog and then I did this and then blah, blah, blah, blah. Is that just an assistant at some point? Show me this man. Bring me him. Prove his existence, and then I'll let you know. Okay, would you like to know my most controversial opinion about anything ever regarding men? Sure, of course. I advocate for a micropenis. Okay, he's going to be a good earner. He's going to work harder. He's going to outwork a big dick, isn't he? Okay, I just am not one of those girls who's like, yeah, I want to get stuffed with something giant. Like, I don't, that's, it actually hurts. I get it. Have you ever had stuff put in your holes? I don't understand. Someone explain to me. Maybe my parts are made wrong or something. Let's not do that. I'm sure your parts are fine. It's just different strokes for different folks. No pun intended. Precisely. But when you say micro. I have encountered a micropinous before one time. We all have. And it was. Every day when I look down. See, there you go. You're a dream boy. When it was hard and I put my hand around it, it did not come up halfway into my fist. If that makes sense. Okay, yeah. To give you an idea of scale. And yet, I realized it doesn't totally matter. And it actually makes some stuff easier. How was his confidence level? He was like cocky. That's cool. Yeah. Good for him. He didn't care. And there was nothing about him that would have indicated this had I not seen him naked. Never would have known. It wasn't like he was weirdly insecure about certain things or scared to take his pants off or warned me. Nothing weird. It was just par for the course. He wasn't driving a yellow Porsche. He owned it. That is sexy, the confidence to have a micropenis and then to just... Not care. Here I am, little dick and all, and I'm going to get this nut off. And you're like...

And I'm like, I don't even know that you're getting this nut off because I can't even feel the micropenis, but it's fine. We're going to work this out. You do your thing. I don't really know. I'm kind of here with you, but, like, you do your thing. If you say so, honey. If you say so. Exactly. Oh, shit. Okay. So you don't want all that baggage that comes along with the big dick, or is it just physically the size is not needed? It's both. I think it's extraneous to have, like, all those extra, I don't know, girth, inches, horrible words that I don't need. And we've all been like trained to think. I think that in culture, dicks have really been positioned as like a weapon. And men are like, yeah, my giant gun is so big. I'm going to like kill the enemy with it and rule entire civilizations. I'm Christopher fucking Columbus and I'm going to conquer new lands with this penis. Right. Like that's the vibe. And I'm like. That just doesn't really appeal to me. I don't think it's necessary. I don't need a really large weapon. I just need a weapon that's used intelligently. Leave the Draco in the car. The .22 pistol is perfectly fine for today. Thank you. Yes. So I've read the first third of your book. I haven't finished it. That's okay. Did you not finish it because you were bored or you didn't finish it because you're busy? It's a time issue. I got it. I've been reading it for like a week. Okay. Well, thank you for reading it at all. Of course, of course. And I've gone through a lot of ups and downs with it, and I've experienced a lot of highs. Not lows, but I've experienced this feeling of like, oh, my God, I can't wait to. have my wife read this book. I think she's going to really relate to the way you, your outlook on life and how you talk about things is going to be great. And then I'll go to the next chapter and I'm like, my wife cannot read this book. My wife cannot read this book at all. And then it'll go back again. But I think the biggest overarching thing that I've taken from it as somebody who does not have a vagina and will never give birth to a child.

I've learned from your husband's mistakes. I've used it as a learning tool of how to not be. Yeah, it's an instructional manual. It's come to me at a very interesting, important part in my life. I had the opposite takeaway. I think the dedication to work at all costs is something that I respect, although it can cause problems in your home life if used incorrectly. That's true. It's admirable and it's something that I find really attractive in a person. But when you reach the stage of life where you decide to have children, there are just certain compromises that like you're going to have to make. But it's like I get it because, to be honest, in that first year, two years or even like three years of a kid's life, like they're not really fully a person. And it's kind of the ideal time to escape off to work. Like now my kid's old enough that if I'm like. mommy has to you know travel for work or whatever it's like he has like a real emotional response to that that matters like he acts out in school or whatever because of it but when they're like six months old they don't fucking know where you are yeah they're just a bag of flour and you just peace out i'm gonna go but wait i have a question about your what you said about your wife do you were you like she cannot read this because you think she'll be triggered or she cannot read it because it's like giving her fodder for all the ways that she's gonna vilify you or yeah maybe maybe a little i mean i was i was being A little tongue in cheeky. I mean, I think overall it would be really great for her to read it. I mean, I generally think women should be kept in the dark and not allowed to read books. But it's nice to hear that you might let her. There we go. Welcome to How Long Gone. Welcome home, Sarah. Nice to be here. Welcome home. We got to keep these women down where they belong. Women are the only people that read books. Women are the only people that read books. It's kind of true. I mean, demographically, publishers know that. women but men like jason which book do you think of significant others should read less the miranda july book or sarah's book i think miranda july is more dangerous to my marriage i mean that book is an instruction manual on how to cheat on your husband and and your book is is not that no no um what i like about it is there's so many women in my life friends family whatever who who have had kids

they need this book i feel like it'll awaken things inside of women who are not even you know like because people are looking at your book and they're like this chick really tells it how it is warts and all she's saying the bad stuff about childbirth that we're all not supposed to say people who aren't who don't even know that bad stuff and bad thoughts about your child even exists you know they've repressed that part of themselves so much so i want to give your book to these people Who, you know, I figured it could give people like legitimate awakenings about themselves. You know, I've been on this book tour, so I've been meeting like hundreds of women for the last couple of weeks. And, you know, it's like a self-selected group of people I'm meeting because they're going out of their way to come to my book event. But I have talked to so many women in their 70s who are like, I never had words for this. And I never knew that I was depressed and never even could, like, identify these feelings in myself. But now having read your book, I realize that I've been depressed for the last 50 years since I had my kids. And I was, like, never able to recover. And I'm like, that's so sad. I don't want that to keep happening to women. Like, that's not okay. 50 years. Yeah. Like, they're like, I've had multiple women say to me. And having read your book, I now realize that I had postpartum depression after the birth of my kids. And those words weren't around. We couldn't say them out loud, even if they were. I didn't have access to therapy. I didn't have girlfriends that this was normalized with that I could say, like, I actually hate this and I'm not sure I like my kid. And I just have spent the last 50 years, like, dutifully doing what I'm supposed to do as a woman and a mother. But I've been miserable and I've never found my sense of self and I've never been fulfilled. And I think that's tragic. Well, it's definitely tragic. I think a thing that I've noticed in that same vein are the most tragic cases are the people who seem to feel lost in life and having a child is going to fix all their problems. The last step to reach true happiness is when I shit out this kid. And then when that true happiness moment doesn't happen, I feel like that is the final.

smack of lifelong depression. Well, yeah, there's a difference between expectation and reality when it comes to childbirth and how fulfilling it will be to have a kid is very heartbreaking for those of us who don't have like a magical moment when the kid comes out and they don't fall immediately in love and it doesn't all become like sparkles and fun. Well, hold on, hold on. Do you think that's actually something that happens or do you think that people say that happens because they feel like they have to? I think many, many people lie or are convinced. convince themselves sure but of course it happens to someone i mean yeah yeah yes my second birth was very different than my first and i had uh like a really positive experience and when my little girl came out i was like oh i get it now like i see i felt like a hormonal rush i was curious about her i was overjoyed i wouldn't say i was like madly in love with her from the jump but i felt like incredibly protective when my son came out and they handed him to me i was like Who the fuck is this? This cannot be my baby. I feel nothing for him. You picked him up with a pair of tongs? Yeah. I was like, get rid of him. He's weird looking. Get this little guy out of here. Who is this motherfucker? Can we do this again? He's too ugly. That's exactly what I thought. It looked like his head went through a frozen yogurt machine. That's funny. You know? Only micropenises have been in there. But for real, though, his... The way that he looked was like shocking. And I just realized how few depictions of like what actual birth and newborn stages and stuff most of us are confronted with. Like I had no idea they look that weird. And it made me feel terrible. It was like all of my insecurities were brought out in this kid. And I was like, oh, no, he's going to be stuck feeling bad about himself for his whole life the same way I did for most of my life. Like this whole thing sucks. This everything about this is misery. Why do people keep doing this? Are people really this convinced that having kids is?

you know, going to, like you said, fix them and make them happy when they're not. And I didn't even go into it that deeply unhappy. Like, I really love my life. So it felt to me like that rupture from my old identity just wasn't even worth it. You know, I was like, oh, great. Now I've ruined my life. I don't get to go back to work for a while. Clothes aren't going to fit the same way. Yes. I feel disconnected from my husband, all this stuff. And for what? This sucks. But yeah, I think most people lie. Do you do? Or do you feel any responsibility or weight or guilt on the fact that your book is going to convince thousands of people to never have a kid? Or do you think that's cool and good? I think that people having all the information they can before they make truly life altering decisions that affect not just them, but like future generations is overall a good thing. And I know firsthand. as perhaps you do too like there are aspects there i have character defects because of the way that my parents treated me and looking back i'm sure many of the ways that they treated me were because they were stressed and unhappy as parents and did not know what to expect going into it and had three kids and like rapid succession and didn't have a ton of money and didn't have a ton of help whatever and like i think it's okay if people don't perpetuate that cycle due to like knowledge that they have yeah Also, though, you're not at the end of my book. It is pretty hopeful at the end. And I don't think I wouldn't say when you finish it, I'll be if you finish it. I'll be curious what you think. But I don't it's not like a condemnation of having kids. It's a condemnation of all of us lying and perpetuating fake narratives about what having kids is really like so that people go into it thinking it's all going to be like puppies and rainbows. OK, good distinction. And I do plan to finish it. Of course, it's great. I'm really liking it. Thank you. I think there's a. There's a big issue with people thinking anything will make them happy. Totally. I just don't think that any one thing is going to magically overnight make you happy, especially one that comes with that amount of responsibilities and life-altering kind of situations. There are women for whom, ever since they were little, they dreamed of having children, and it's their calling. Very small percentage of women.

that this actually applies to, if you ask me. But there are those women, and I'm like, go off. This is your calling in life. This is your passion. Have all your babies. Be a trad wife if that's what makes you happy. But I think for the most part, women are just really convinced, especially when they don't feel fulfilled in the world, that this is going to be the thing that makes them feel fulfilled, and that is an absolute lie. And the only thing I think that at the end of the day... can make you your best self is like figuring out your own shit yeah and drugs Money and drugs. I'm saying money and drugs are the only two things that have ever made me happy, and one of them I can't do anymore, so I don't know what I'm supposed to do besides work. Yeah, I know. They are great for a while, but I don't know if they're great always. No, of course not. They're part of a balanced diet, but they're not the whole diet. I believe that money can bring happiness before almost anything else. I think that is a complete – I think any other thinking about that is kind of a lie. Yeah. money is awesome i'm not saying it doesn't bring more problems i think all that's real different people are better and worse at buying happiness and creating happiness with money like it's a skill to to make money into happiness yeah i don't think yeah i don't think it's just i think it's more of the peace of mind i don't even think it has to do with the actual security yeah like what you're buying with it doesn't matter like you could have a honda civic or you could have a fucking ferrari it's more about the understanding in your mind that there's just not that kind of level of anxiety. Yeah. You know, I, so I was an art dealer. I worked at like a large international art gallery for whatever, 15 years before I wrote my book and sold it and stuff. And I met a lot of billionaires and I would ask all of them at what stage in getting rich, did they feel like they had enough money and they all are like, I still feel poor. The more money you have, the more your expenses grow, the more people you're responsible for, and you never, ever get to the point where you're just like, I'm so rich, nothing matters, I feel totally safe. All of them across the board would say to me, this could go away a million different ways any day, and I will never feel secure and safe and like I have enough. That doesn't surprise me at all, but they still feel better than someone that's living in Section 8. Yeah, and they also still have the ability to like...

smooth over whatever misery they're temporarily in or whatever panic they have with like massage it you know whatever the hell they want whatever makes them temporary that's what i do now and i only have to pay 50 for it so it's looking good for me go get a ketamine bag what kind of places are you going for that 50 massage i go to grand nature on um right over here in chinatown it's the best it's like asian guys that smoke cigarettes before they come in and rub your back but it's the hardest It's like the most pressure you can get. I think nice massages are fake. I think getting a high-end massage is a waste of money. The epitome of pissing away money is getting a massage in a hotel. I agree, but they don't do anything to my body. I need something more than that. Oh, I need my fascia to be ripped off of my muscle. Scrape me, daddy. Scrape me. Right. Scrape me. I also love a Chinatown massage. I like Water Lily. Yeah, I know Water Lily. This place, Grand Nature and Water Lily. Grand Nature is disgusting. No, no, no. I mean, yes, but there are some kind of shoddy partitions between beds. But you can hear the people groaning next to you. That's me, usually. Yeah, that's you. Yeah, that's me. I've heard a lot of groaning. Also, they tend to heat up food in a microwave. Oh, I love that. It's something fragrant always. I'm just going to put this squid bow in there for 30 seconds. I've literally seen a guy smoking on the street and then come upstairs and I'm like, damn, that's the same guy. He washed his hands, but you can smell a Marlboro light coming from a mile away. First of all, that was a Marlboro red. I promise you that. With a filter not ripped off, but chewed off. You know what? It doesn't matter if the massage brings pain upon my body, which is how I like it. Every time I get a massage in a hotel, whether I'm paying for it or it's free, I didn't need to do that. It's a waste of time. I don't feel anything after, unless there's a whole water program that I'm involved in after or before the massage. Water program.

Men in their water program. No, I'm not on my Huberman shit. I just mean like if you get a massage and you go to the sauna and then you get in a hot tub and you take a shower, that is a different experience than just a massage. I know. I'm trying to think of what to compare it to. But that kind of massage is like, I don't know, having a little bit of caviar or something. It's not dinner. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. It's light bites. It's a treat. Yeah, it's a light bite. It's a light bite. You're right. Empty calories. Maybe I need to go hit a Chinatown massage while I'm here, y'all. I wanted to talk to you about the first chapter in your book where you're telling the story about having your after baby shower drug party at the Chateau. Yes. I feel like you have a book of Chateau stories in you, and it was so fun to read that chapter. Do you have any more gold in them hills? I have so many Chateau stories. I've spent so much time there. And I was very honored because Andre Balazs read my book, emailed me at 530 in the morning saying, I stayed up all night at the Chateau reading your book about the Chateau. I'm really happy to not be married. Will soon be getting a vasectomy thanks to your book. But loved it. And that's big because he's a legendary stick man. Like he's not married by choice. You would have thought Andre would have done that snip a little while ago. Yeah. Like it's not invasive, y'all. Let's do it. Not against the idea of every man doing it at 13, like in lieu of a bar mitzvah. You just get that little reversible vasectomy, and then you just don't have to worry about things for 20 years. That does sound honestly great. Let's normalize it. Thank you. And if everyone does it, if it's a government-mandated thing like you want it to be, then we'll get so good at doing the vasectomy, it'll be like getting your, you know. Your chicken pox vaccination will just be in and out. I do. I would feel more comfortable with the government telling me what to do with my body if I just got to tell little boys a little bit what to do with their body, just a little bit. Honestly, that's really smart. It just feels fair. Yeah, that's a great idea. Okay, thank you. There wouldn't be any pushback either, so it would be really – No, absolutely not. It could help.

It could help with our overpopulation crisis as well. Yeah, Elon would love it. They're trying to get that. We've got to kill a lot of us. That new law through in one of the southern states where you're fined $10,000 for ejaculating unless you were trying to procreate. Oh, people will love that. Where is this? Was this in Singapore? Missouri. Did you learn that one the hard way, Chris? No, no, no. It's in Missouri. But I was like, how do you police that? Like, what do you mean? Like, how does this even... I know how. Come sniffing dogs. That has to be it. I have no idea how they would be able to. Like cameras in every bathroom? No, I think it'll be once the Elon Musk Neuralink chip is mandatedly inserted inside of our body. If I'm wearing a Fitbit right now, your Apple Watch, it will know when you come. Okay, the thing is, that's not even going to have to be mandated. Everybody's going to want that chip. Yeah. That's a sad thing. Everyone is already wearing these tracking devices on their body. And they're paying for it. Not you, Chris. No devices. Also, but our obsession with being surveilled. is a little misplaced i think like who cares like 99.9 of people have boring banal lives and it doesn't matter if google knows where you are it just doesn't matter okay i always i remember like when i went to college my dad being like be really careful never give anyone your social security number like be so careful and i was like for what what do they steal my sad identity i have no money like what are they gonna do that's my whole i'm with you Take it. If you want it, take it. We'll figure it out later. If they can absorb my debt and bad credit score, go right ahead, y'all. Good luck with that. Although I have been getting served a lot of credit card scammer videos on Instagram Reels, and it has been quite eye-opening. Oh, like some really thought-out... No, no, no. It's like the hood shit where it's just kind of like... We skim numbers and then we have fake cards and we go to the ATM and we just take all the money out of your account. Like they install the little thing onto the 7-Eleven credit card machine and you put it in and it steals their... Okay, this is why everyone needs to live in New York City because you know not to use the 7-Eleven ATM that's on the fucking street. Any ATM on the street. I've only used an ATM on the street if you're getting money to buy cocaine. There's no other reason to use that ATM. Yeah.

Wait, I completely agree. It's too cold, too. It's like cold. Like, just go into one of the Bank of America homeless shelters and fucking get your cash out. Precisely. Wait, I have a lot of really good Chateau stories, but I will say I've had a lot of parties there. But the most, probably one of the smartest things I've ever done, it's a short list, but was making the invitation to my kids, like, sip and see baby shower thing. No gifts unless it's drugs because everyone wants to bring a new baby gifts. And they feel very generous around a new baby. And they brought me so many drugs at that party. Everybody came in with a different little Ziploc baggie of something for me. And I kept all my hotels safe. And I had... everything you could have ever wanted for a month. I could have become a drug dealer after that party. Okay. So there was a dangerous cocktail inside of your Chateau safe. Yeah. I hope you were managing this drug use responsibly. I was being very irresponsible about it, but it only impacted me personally. My husband doesn't do drugs. And it was really fun. Now what happened, and you'll get to this part of my book too, is that... I went back later on with my kid and he started seeing ghosts in that hotel. And it was very convincing. He was like, for days being like, the mean man comes to visit me at night. The mean man comes at night. He's so mean to me, blah, blah, blah. And finally I said, next time the mean man comes, just tell mommy and I'll come in your room and protect you. And he grabbed my hand and he pointed at the like sliding glass door in our bungalow. And he was like, he's here now. He's right there. He's watching you. Was it DiCaprio drunk looking for his room? Damn it. Could have been. That would have been fun. That could have been Andre himself. I mean, we don't know. There's a whole cast of characters there that it could have been. Oh, and then I also had a crazy time there because I was there during the pandemic when the hotel was pretty much closed. And there were only like six of us there. I was there for like a month. And that was a really funny group of misfits who were hanging out. Was it George Cortina and Lucas Sabat?

The two of them were part of the crew, but they were cool. I love George Cortina. It sounds like a Starz original screenplay ready to happen, I've got to say. Yeah, who else was there? Get on that. Okay, there was a guy who, when I checked in, they were like, when you go down to the pool, you're going to see a guy with really long hair, and he's going to seem weird, but he's just on acid. And I got down to the pool, and there was a man standing on a pool chair. with like hair down to his waist, wearing a towel like a diaper, like tied around him like a diaper. And he was just standing on the chair, like staring off into space for like an hour. And I don't remember his name, but he was there. No, you want to know what's so funny? His grandparents... Rick Rubin. No, younger than that. His grandparents invented the artificial Christmas tree. wow i'm not making this up okay that's my favorite that's my favorite when someone's like what's the money from well actually i'm in trees i was like that's not real that's like inventing the post-it note like you made that up and they're like no no it's real I was told once that someone I worked with was very wealthy because her dad invented the Furby, and nothing has ever topped that one for me. Oh, my God. That's great. So that guy made his money, got out, and he just kept that fortune, do we think? Because some people are always like, oh, it's the screw they use on every train or something. You know what I mean? It's like one of those things. I was the first guy to make ladders out of aluminum instead of wood, wouldn't you know? Yeah, yeah. I like something that's a little more consumer-facing in the pop culture. Well, the thing is about this. The screw on every train, you're like, I understand why you got rich. Like, wow. But the Furby, that's, like, right place, right time. That's luck. Like, if that product had hit six months too early, no one would have cared. But it was just the perfect timing with everything else going on in the zeitgeist. The people were like, oh, something cute. I, as an adult, want that. I actually don't remember that much about Furbies. But they were, like, collectibles, right? And they, like, moved? They moved. But it was, like, a hard plastic stuffed animal.

put a double a in there and his eyes will open up and stuff but the the main thing was that it was the like the christmas present you had to get your child for like three years running wow which i think is all you need to kind of cash out um okay well let's let's get back to this chateau story sorry oh oh don't apologize to me okay so there was the guy whose grandparents invented the artificial christmas tree who was always on acid and every day for like a month would be like do you want to come to my room so i can read you my screenplay And I was like, no, I don't. You could read it to me down here at the pool. And also I think was like dosing everyone at the hotel. And it was really spooky because it was during COVID. So there were entire floors of the hotel that just had all the lights off that were totally shut down. And then random people who are staying long-term in different rooms. And so we would all meet in the garden. There was no, like, food, you know? Right. We would all meet in the garden and use the bar and, like, make ourselves drinks every night and have, like, cocktail hour. It was like being in a nursing home. Wow. It was really funny. It's like waking up after everyone on planet Earth died and it's just you and Diaper Boy and Lucas Abad. Yep. Making some gimlets at three. It was exactly that. I had really fun parties. I would like use all the pots in their industrial kitchen and like cook lobsters for 40 people in my room. And it was really fun. I had a great, it's the best part of COVID. How do you begin gaining access to a place like this? Because it's such a, you know, a sought after hotel that you can't buy your way in there. That's why it's cool. But how did you ingratiate yourself into the Chateau family? Once you spend enough money there, I think you could be in the family. Yeah, I stayed there a bunch. And also, like, all the people who work there are extremely cool. Yeah, that's true. So I became friends with them. And I had known Andre from before because he's, you know, in the art world in his own way. And I think it's the kind of place that, like, rewards creative individuals. So there are a lot of, like, artists that I know. I think they reward. Yeah, I think if the MX swipes, they'll reward your ass real quick. That also really helps.

Yeah, I would love for you, please. I mean, it's the one hotel I love where they encourage you almost to smoke indoors. Yeah, and you don't see a ton of douchebags there, considering where it is. It polices itself pretty darn well. I don't know if I'm going to agree with this one, but I see. Sure, it's better than some places. Well, I'll put it this way. I once went to LA and checked into the Beverly Hills Hotel because I was like, I'm really going to treat myself. Well, that's different. And Fox News, I went to the gym and Fox News was playing on every TV. Yeah. What's the issue there? Do you not like news? Would we call it news? You have to get your news from somewhere. I don't know. That's just me. Every dude there was like wearing a baseball hat inside and, you know. gave me strong Republican vibes, and I'm sure they were all really rich. They're all from Dallas. And I was like, these aren't my people. Yeah. And I was just like, staying in a hotel is a real treat. These aren't my people. And those people would never stay at Chateau because they'd be like, ew, it's old and dirty and not fancy enough. Great. Keep it that way so that they know their place and they stay somewhere fancy. Well, Beverly Hills Hotel is also, I mean, it's still owned by a problematic Saudi. What hotel isn't, honey? There's like a hole. I mean, people were boycotting it. No, but people were particularly boycotting the Beverly Hills Hotel because of who owned it. Oh, yeah. At one point, they had like protesters outside and stuff like that. And then people stopped. But I mean, people were protesting the Chateau, too. Well, there was a point, I think, where all the big agencies were like, no lunches at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Like, we can't support that regime. Seems like none of those agencies have retained that level of being political. I love that. We can't support that regime of all those expensive salads. We have to draw the line somewhere. Every regime is at the Chateau having dinner every night. Yeah. I also, Hollywood is not a place I would ever think of as moral as far as where they're spending their money. I can't explain. That was like such a blip, you know? It just seems so not where Hollywood is now. Like, they all seem in Trump's pocket. They have to be.

There's no other way. They don't really have much of a choice if they want to get things done. Lastly, to square this circle, what's your hotel bill after 30 days at the Chateau? Interesting fact, when you stay in a hotel for more than 30 days, you don't pay tax. I did not know that. Yeah, you're considered a resident. So dare I say it's a deal? Well, I mean, I guess technically. Just like anything, you buy it in bulk and they'll cut you a deal, huh? Right. Whether we're buying bumper stickers or days at a hotel. I want to talk about you getting sick. Which kind of sick? When you got the mouthful of water. Oh, yeah. That was terrible. I don't recommend that. I didn't know that was... I always thought that was... I drink water all the time. What's the deal? That was something that was over-exaggerated by people, but then your retelling of it was like, damn, this sounds terrible. Yeah, I really... There were moments where I was like, I might die here. But the thing is, if you've never shit the bed, you haven't lived. You have to do it at least once. You have to know what that is. Jason, she swallows a mouthful of seawater, and it basically, what does it give you? It had raw sewage in it. Okay. Okay. So some people get pink eye, you had pink body. Yeah. It wasn't. I wouldn't recommend it. Okay. And I was incredibly sick. It lasted like a month. See, another one of the many reasons that I will not take up surfing, no matter what. I have to resist. What city was this beach in? I was in Indonesia when I drank that water. Okay. I'm sure that their government has a different relationship to the way they treat water in their beaches or whatever. And I think it had been really rainy and the sewers had overflowed and no one told me there might be raw sewage here. And I took a big drink of water and it was... almost instant and very terrible. I just, I just, I just felt like there's, there'd been so much shit going on already. I was like, this is really just bad luck. Like at a certain point I was like, this is just, I feel bad. This is, this is just, there's nothing. Can a bitch get her break? Literally. That's what it felt like. They say God gives you what you could handle, but I could not handle that. Like it really messed with me, broke my brain. And then I had to like, you know,

I would have murdered my husband had I had a real weapon. I was enraged and also very weak. Did your husband force you to drink the seawater? Why would you murder him? For existing, but also he made me go surfing. He's the one who made me go surfing. Oh, got it, got it, got it. You're going to get there, and then you're going to have even more questions for me. No, I just, yeah. Okay, so you're saying you haven't lived everyone at least one time in their life should shit the bed, literally speaking. Yes, I think that it's really interesting to know that level of depraved desperation and misery. I kind of see your point on this. I think I might be with you. Yes, you have to know what it's like. I remember feeling that sick and being like, oh my God, I know what it's like to be a horrible addict or to live in squalor. Right, you touch the bottom of the bottom of the floor. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, I see. I mean, it also probably has some sort of meditative, zen-like qualities to it. I mean, people say the last, because of like smartphones and everything, the last time where we truly are alone with ourselves and our thoughts is when we're vomiting. Because it's like your body cannot consume anything at that, you know, during those brief moments. But I feel like when you're actively shitting the bed, that's the only thing that you can think about for those. few seconds right or minutes you're not wrong and there's the zen like thing about it where you're like oh i can't control this it's very like buddhist you're like i give into the universe everything is temporary i can't there's nothing i can do about this i give up i can't fight it like my body is forcing me into this horrible position and i'm just gonna let it happen and lay here and like whatever happens next we'll get there so yes it is spiritual yeah what yeah when the The freedom of it's impossible to put the train off the tracks. It's coming and it's about to hit. Yeah, you get it. Make peace with that. Okay, well, I mean, I guess I would say I've already shit the bed, but I don't think I have. I mean, unless when I was a baby. Oh, you have so much to live for. I know, right? First day of the rest of my doo-doo life, baby. It's coming for you. Speaking of doo-doo lives, now that you are more famous because of...

being a successful author and writing a great book, are you slash now or are you going to become an influencer? Are you going to use your fame? I don't think I'm very famous, but even if I had 10 times the profile I do, I have no interest in becoming an influencer. I don't know if you have much of a choice if you keep going in this direction. They're going to find you and they're going to make you do it. But the thing is, first of all, I don't love following direction. So if someone came to me and they were like, we'll give you money if you do X, Y, and Z, I automatically feel allergic to that. I like to question authority figures and people tell me what to do. And also, there's no world where I would ever promote something I don't care about. I don't have that energy. And even if I did and I made myself do it, I wouldn't do it well. Well, you need to start caring about more stuff, I think, is the issue. Maybe you need to care more about everything. Yeah, maybe you just haven't figured out the right way to fall in love with Squarespace. That's my problem. Exactly. You're not the first person to say that to me, Jason. We will advertise anything because we feel so passionate about so many different things. Is it possible to just simply love advertising? Yes, absolutely. Have you seen Mad Men? But I'm not one of those people. And I just don't know. I don't know if the influencer life is for me. Also, I don't get a lot of joy out of creating content. And I feel like my life is better when I don't look at social media at all. And I don't think any of this adds up to being a good influencer. So I don't know if that's a path for me. You could be like the anti-influencer. You know what I mean? No, I understand. I think that if you don't feel passionate about content creation, you should avoid the field altogether. Totally. That's the backbone of influencing. Yeah. And the people who I look at who I'm like, oh, you're good at this in your little niche area. Like, it's really fun for them and they like doing it every day. Because that's the other thing about it. You have to do it so much. Yeah. You have to do it every day. You can't dabble. You have to do it until you die. And I don't want to do anything like that. That's not for me. So, no, I don't think that that's a path I'm going to take. But what do you think I should do with my life? I mean, I feel like art dealing is one of the more profitable.

things that someone can do if they're good at it yeah but but i imagine you don't want to return to that because you have this new freedom of being able to come and go as you please i have a new freedom and i did it for a long time and i did it at the top for a long time and it's like where am i going to go next so what's your collect what's your personal collection looking like um well i collect art that is made by like my friends you know artists that i know in the world that i love and like um my husband's an artist so sometimes i'll force him to trade with other people. Sure, of course. At the height of this, you weren't buying anything that caught your eye. You were mostly trading or buying from friends. No, I was selling art that cost millions and millions of dollars, which unfortunately for me wasn't feasible for my budget. You weren't super liquid at that moment. Yeah, just not at that moment. Now that I'm an author... Well, now that you're an author... I mean, you asked what should you do with the rest of your life. Now that you're an author, obviously a lot of doors have opened up and people will hear what you got to say. I see you in a position of like, you know, working in Hollywood, not as a showrunner or a director, but maybe as just like a creative consultant. You're just going in and telling Netflix like, we need shows about this. Cancel all that shit. Here's what works. Here's what doesn't work. Something like that. First of all, that sounds extremely fun. And second of all, someone needs to do that for them. Yeah. Because I get the sense that all these big streamers, that every decision is made by like a committee of people who don't really know. And it's like, most of it's so bad. How does that happen? I think it's because it works. Well, because taste is bad. It works. Well, yeah, most people have bad taste. But it's possible to do it good as well. No, it's not. Because if you do it good, nobody's going to want to watch it. Like, Love is Blind is popular because it's not good. That's the whole point. And more people want to watch that than watch something that's quote-unquote good. I've thought about this before where there's two tiers for Netflix or two tiers for anything where it's like Netflix and then Netflix Plus.

Netflix for smart people, Netflix for children and dum-dums. Yeah. You know what I mean? There are like two different parts of my brain that I like to activate at different times. Like there are nights where I just want to go blind watching Real Housewives of literally anywhere. And I just want to like zone out. Go blind. Your tongue is hanging out of your mouth. You're just like, ugh. Right. Okay. Exactly. And then there are nights where I'm like, oh, like I want to watch like a really well-crafted documentary. But it's not the same, Sarah. Those are two different versions of me. So I actually think this is a great idea because there should be some way to distinguish between the really high-end stuff and the drivel. But we all need both. Well, guys, I think there is a way. It's called the search function on any streaming service. You can just kind of go in there and find what you're looking for. That's the whole value proposition. Well, the same way that we have an age restriction rating system where like NC-17, kids can't watch this, whatever. Just put that same rating system on the content and be like, this is for idiots. Then this is for people who think they're smart. I think the keyword is people who think they're smart. That's the keyword because that's exactly who would buy into that system. I would love to do creative consulting, though, because there has never been a TV show or really a movie that captures the art world correctly and well. Not even The City featuring Whitney Port? Was that set in the art world? Was there art world in that? I think they went to Chelsea gallery parties and stuff. Sarah, you're telling me gallery girls is not representative of the art world? I'm sorry to break this to you. 15 years later. Did Sex and the City come the closest? Or did HBO's Girls come the closest? Wait, Girls didn't really come the closest. I know there was that storyline of one of the characters who dated an artist. That wasn't quite it to me. And Sex and the City, I can't really speak to it because that storyline about Charlotte, well, way back, like in the early season when she worked in a gallery, and there were like the power lesbians. Remember that episode? Or have you not memorized all the Sex and the City episodes like me? I've memorized most of them. That's like the gallery world in the 90s. That predates me by a lot. I just wasn't in New York yet then, and galleries...

were not international then it took until the early 2000s for there to be galleries that were big enough that they operated on like multiple continents right so it was kind of a different world then anyway but No, I don't think either of them really nailed it. And also the art world was like, you know, they dabbled in it, but it wasn't the backdrop for the show. And I'm like, I don't know. Someone should make like a Mad Men of the art world or a Sex and the City set in the art world or something like that, because it is the most interesting and opaque of all of the big business worlds to me. But I think the opaqueness is what keeps it from happening. Yeah, because they don't have a consultant. Hello. Well, I think more because of the Internet and us being a global citizenship. the the opacity has has grown to now we have enough people who are into like i want to know about billionaires and conspiracies and backdoor deals and like shady weapons deals and trading for art like there's a lot of stuff there that people will be interested in now oh i believe yeah we all have stories that would be so entertaining that feel like they're from tv and movies that are real life you know well the beauty is you know like i said your doors have opened for you because of the success of this book There's somebody listening to this right now who's going to send their agent an email to talk to you about developing this show. Oh, my God. Fingers crossed. Thank you. You've really set me up for life. My hand to God. I appreciate that. All right. Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I hope you had fun potting. Thanks for having me. I had so much fun. Thank you, Sarah. It was a pleasure. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Thank you. I'm sure we'll see you soon. Her book, The Mother Lode, a memoir, is available now. You could listen to it on Spotify, audiobooks. I narrated it myself. For free. I was hoping you narrated it yourself. If you don't hate the sound of my voice, then I recommend. I'm not like an audiobook girly, personally. No, me neither. Cool. Well, we appreciate you. Likewise. Nice to meet y'all. Yeah, nice to meet you, too. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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